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Comment by madrox | Hacker News Reader

My mother’s retired life is consumed by doing everything she can to stay independent for as long as possible. Ubers are nice, but she’s hoping self driving cars become truly possible before she has to give up her license. That’ll be a huge blow to her when the day comes.

However, other tech has really prolonged things. Fall detection, maps, hearing aids, and everything else has really allowed her to live a life relatively unchanged from when she was younger.

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It's really unfortunate that so many people live in places where this is the case. One amazing thing that you notice when you walk around places that are walkable and have great transit is how mobile a lot of the old people you see around are. There's a strong correlation between more walking and reduced all-cause mortality (not just for older people but even for the middle-aged), so living somewhere that encourages getting around more on foot instead of by car just seems to automatically keep people moving for longer (as I understand it, past a certain age losing muscle mass is very difficult to come back from so maintaining it for as long as possible is key). Even when walking gets too difficult, these places tend to be way better for things like mobility scooters because you can actually get places worth visiting safely, within the range of the battery and in an acceptable amount of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externalities_of_automobiles

My grandmother is turning 100 in a few months. She was able to renew her license a few years ago and it doesn’t expire until she is 107. I was truly surprised that she was able to renew it. Not because she is a bad driver (they made her take both the written and driving test) but because I assumed there would be an age cut off.

She still lives on her own, can walk unassisted, volunteers helping old people (which apparently doesn’t include herself), still has a far better memory than I do, etc.

what about teslas or Commas self driving tech? Comma even installs in just about any car (truth may vary)

What about them? You still need agility and awareness at a very high level to use Tesla's "self driving" tech, the system asks you to take over in difficult situations without any notice - I'd even argue that it's actually worse not better for someone who is old and not fully mobile, as the movements need to be quite rapid to react to the idiotic situations the car gets into by itself.

I'm for walkable, mixed-use neighborhoods. It would help if there was more such infrastructure in the US.

I'm not a fan of self driving cars as the solution to this problem space.

This only works if you live somewhere with a mild climate. Most places of the world it seems won't fall into this category. Summer and winter are hard. With cars where you get to set a temperature before going out, it's not just convenient, it can well be vital for seniors. Not to mention when there's rain, snow or wind. I'm all for cars. They just need to be more efficient. And it's achievable.

Great post, in our city for a few years they stopped clearing side walks in the winter (dumb mayor, he didn't last).

I carried an old lady with a walker stuck in the middle of the road. It was brutal on them even with the plowing, without zero ability to move around.

I think that speaks more to environmental hostility due to social/governmental choices. The woman lost her mobility because the mayor didn’t clear the side walks. Not because of winter.

If if we designed public transportation so it was convenient and usable by everyone older people would have more options in all weather.

If we had consistent (24/7), frequent, high coverage public transportation that was subsidized at the same rate as car infrastructure, everyone would use it. If it was faster than driving in traffic rich people would use it and support it as well.

We choose to build a society that only works for a tiny segment and makes all of our own lives more difficult (and eventually impossible).

This brings up scaling up good governance and city planning (essentially politics) VS scaling up an industrial product. Democratic governments are generally much responsive to needs of minorities and disadvantaged people, yet it’s not doing particularly well in changing how cities are built. Non-democracies aren’t gonna do any better if not worse. Wouldn’t it be much easier to improve mobility by autonomous driving and improved car design?

I'm handicapped and have lived without a car for more than a decade, among other things.

I've studied city planning. I run r/UrbanForestry on Reddit where I talk at times about city scale passive solar design.

Middle Eastern desert cities were historically designed such that daytime street temps were bearable by design.

It's doable. We just aren't bothering.

Walking for 15-20 min in -30C is just fine with the right clothes.

It's survivable, sure. As someone who biked to work in Wisconsin winter, skis, and makes sure to get outside every day for exercise, -12 to -17 is as low as I'll go.

Which is the most pressing issue with winter weather for seniors. Injuries sustained from a fall are one of the leading reasons people are moved from an independent living situation. Losing your mobility from a fall is also a quick path towards death.

That's an example of poor walkability due to government choices.

How so? Are there many places that get -30 C and don’t have snow/ice?

No, but there are various cold countries where the government

- eagerly clears the snow

- provides capillary public transportation

- provides city-wide heating

- encourages the development of large buildings (even connected with each other) instead of isolated homes

Does it have to be either/or?

Yes. It can't be walkable if it's car-friendly.

The tech we need is mixed-use walkable neighbourhoods with reduced (or eliminated!) car traffic forced to travel slowly. It's one of the reasons I'd hate to grow old in my current house and we're considering Utrecht.

Utrecht was absolutely gorgeous. My fiance and I spent a few days in Amsterdam and I'm so glad we took a day to go out there and just walk around. Weather was trash (it was 2020 right before COVID started shutting things down) but even still one of my highlights from that trip.

We were very lucky that the author of this article* spent a day showing us around her neighbourhood. It's like the entire world has gone stark raving mad and "I think my child should be able to travel independently" is a controversial statement. Only a few pockets of sanity seem to exist.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle...

I wonder if people living in places with non-car focused infrastructure have the same reservations?

What amount of home care and nursing home care is purely down to our reliance on personal motor vehicles?

Not only will your elderly mom not live to see self driving cars become commonplace, you won't either.

This comment lacks any of the detail needed to justify its callousness.

I detect no callousness. It's unlikely, based on current trajectory, that autonomous cars would possess the ability to never need user intervention in the near future.

This is a technology website.

I'm commenting on tech trends.

One should not be leading the elderly to believe that self driving cars are going to be dramatically enhancing their mobility any day now.

Living in a car-centric society is incredibly limiting for both older people and children.

It's really unfortunate that people accept the status quo.

What does she utilize for fall detection?

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