National Defense Authorization Act - Turning US into a Battlefield | Hacker News Reader

National Defense Authorization Act - Turning US into a Battlefield

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The minute I saw an Alex Jones/Prison Planet link I figured this wasn't quite legit:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c1120eg...:

"[SEC 1031] (b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows:

1 A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.

2 A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces."

So while it continues a disturbing precedent and there's plenty to be concerned about regarding US civil liberties, this one isn't nearly as broad-reaching as the article makes it sound.

Thanks for posting this. I know that Alex Jones can blow things out of proportion... but still, the ACLU writeup seems to be pretty strongly worded and argues essentially the same thing as this article. Is there something we're missing?

I don't know... I thought section 1032 might be the one with the more general provisions, but 1032.a.2 ("COVERED PERSONS") is dependent on 1031's provisions that restrict it to people involved in 9/11 or al-Qaeda.

While the whole idea of indefinitely detaining people without trial is contrary to the principles of the constitution and circumventing due process opens a loophole where it's easy to accuse anyone of al-Qaeda affiliation, the press around this one seems to be disingenuously omitting that aspect of the bill.

I trust the ACLU as a source though, so maybe we are missing something.

It's worse than you think. If you're shooting up an Army post with an AK-47, this bill would let the Army hold you as a POW instead of requiring them to call 911 and wait for the police to come and handle it.

This bill would turn the US into a battlefield because the title of the link to some guy's blog says it does. That's something that trained soldiers coming over here and shooting people and bombing stuff in the name of a foreign power could not do.

Scary, very scary. Since 9/11 civil liberties have all but been decimated by the state. I sadly recall many of my peers clamoring for Homeland Security as they wanted someone to protect them.

Yet I am ever hopeful this proposal will be defeated.

I feel like I should leave this here: http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/mrge8/did_anyone_e...

TL;DR; - It's not what Alex Jones would have you think it is.

Perhaps the popularity of OWS is spooking certain interests....

A blogspam post copied from prisonplanet.com about US politics? There are not enough flag buttons in the world for this one. Please don't post things like this here.

Does anyone know of any countries which have no geographical, strategic, or mining resources of interest to the big world powers, which also accept immigration?

"Where could I theoretically move to if I want to stop living in the US" is something I sometimes think about. New Zealand, the Netherlands, and Brazil seem like interesting possibilities. Brazil doesn't really meet the criteria you mentioned; NL is part of the EU which I suspect means you would not be interested. NZ might fit though, and my understanding is that it is not hard to immigrate there.

They also love the free market, respect their natural resources, and have great sea food.

Isn't NZ one of the countries with the 3-strike law? Or did they repel that?

It was passed, then repealed, and may now be passed again. I haven't checked lately. Obviously something I would investigate before going there.

NZ has actually been an American guinea pig for trying all all kinds of draconian copyright laws. Other countries are used to test out economic policies. Argentina for example, with its last collapse, was a failed economic experiment.

The U.S. is one of the few countries where you can not give up your citizenship. Combine that with the fact that the U.S. has extradition treaties with all but Brazil and China you really have nowhere to run...

  > The U.S. is one of the few countries where you can not
  > give up your citizenship.

It's hard to automatically give up your US citizenship, but you can go through the process of expatriation.

I think you can renounce your citizenship. But(!) with IRS's approval only. You have to prove that you are not doing it in order to avoid paying taxes.

It's as if the US Constitution doesn't exist anymore.

That's why it's mandatory that Americans vote for someone that is strong on upholding the Constitution above anything else, in the next elections. The country is going downhill regarding stepping all over people's rights, and it's only going to get worse if we keep electing the same people, or the same type of people who could care less about people's rights - all in the name of "security" and against terrorism, which isn't even a specific enemy, but a tactic, which means it can be whatever they want it to be, indefinitely.

Oddly enough, there are no major parties in the US that are built on a platform of strong constitutional protection.

They have become more or less one and the same party now. I'm hoping that by the next presidential election (2016) a true 3rd party will evolve. It's a good thing when 2 parties have to ally against the 3rd to have majority in Parliament/Congress. It also means that whenever those 2 parties, whichever they are, do something very stupid, there will most likely be strong opposition from the 3rd one, too.

Pretty much.

Of course, I'm wary of anything that comes from "that" kind of site. (You know what I mean.) However, at the same time if this is true it's definitely something for me to ponder as I look out my window tonight, knowing that one day there may be a time where a comforting dark instills only a faint sense of paranoia.

From a supremely cynical view point this is a good thing. It is yet another step towards making living in the west impossible for the middle class.

Of such things are revolutions born.

It is terrible that we still need war/strife/etc to push ourselves out of complacency.

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