Comment by secthrowaway | Hacker News Reader

Comment by secthrowaway | Hacker News Reader

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All fair questions (I don't know why the down votes for you)!

"You said that there is no level strictly above Top Secret (just comparmentalizations within that). Is there any actual evidence for that? (I mean, non-classified evidence; I'm not asking you for classified information.)"

There are no levels strictly above Top Secret. At least as far as the military is concerned. SAP programs and compartmentalizations provide more than enough OPSEC to keep things classified. For example, I don't personally have access to the Nuke Codes. But the guys who do all have Top Secret clearances and are read onto some specific compartments and SAPs.

There are also clearance equivalencies at other agencies. DOE for example, has a different kind of system, but they more or less map to DoD clearances. Some agencies are highly compartmentalized, the CIA for example.

"Where did you get the statistic about 1 in 50 to 70 Americans have had at least a Secret classification? That seems absurd."

I don't know the exact number, but I have a pretty good idea that agrees with some back-of-the-brown-paper-bag calculations, it's perfectly within reason.

For example, say there are 1 million people in the military right now. And say all of them have at least a Secret clearance (it's probably more like 70%-80%, most jobs get you at least this clearance level just as a matter of course). That's about 1:300 (or 1:430 or so depending), say right now there are about 25 million veterans (from the Census), that's already 1 in 12.

During the Manning news, it was reported that currently there are more than 4 million people with clearances and one million of them had Top Secret clearances.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2041326/More-4-MILLI...

That pegs it at 1:75 right now with Secret levels and 1:300 with Top Secrets.

1:50-1:70 for people who do or have had access to classified material is is extremely conservative.

I'm sorry, I appreciate the information, but you're not actually giving evidence for your claims about TS being the highest.

Same thing for the ratio of people in the military (except for the Daily Mail citation, which is quite helpful). I mean, Army grunts are not required to have clearances [1], for example, so you can't just say "assume everyone in the military has a clearance..."

[1] This may be a misunderstanding on my part, but that's what I've been told. You don't want to clear (and probably can't clear) a ton of 18yo cannon fodder.

I'm assuming you aren't actually asking me to prove a negative. If a reading of NISPOM doesn't clarify it for you, then there's really nothing more I can say that will persuade you from your conspiracy theory.

http://www.dss.mil/isp/fac_clear/download_nispom.html

Army Grunts are required to have a clearance. General Infantry (18yo cannon fodder in your parlance) must have at least a Secret clearance. Army Cooks, may even be required to be cleared.

Think you can run around with 5th generation night vision goggles and state of the art body armor, talk on encrypted radio equipment, know troop movement information, chase after specific enemies and report back on activities on Secret level systems without a clearance? Think again.

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say we can say there's a piece of information that is so dangerous, so important, that releasing that information could endanger the entire population of the planet. Say, the nuclear codes.

These are arguably the most sensitive information in the world. Why would there need to be a classification level above and beyond TS and the appropriate compartments and or SAP program to protect them? Some sort of Super Top Secret?

Or for fun, let's say Area-51 has alien tech there, or we have a secret military base on the moon, or a Stargate. Why wouldn't it just be protected under a SAP? A Super Top Secret doesn't buy you anything at all in terms of protecting that information. Nor does a Super Duper Top Secret. As somebody not in the SAP and not with a need to know, I wouldn't even know the SAP exists to protect the Stargate program, or the alien autopsy videos, or whatever. Only the people in the SAP and a handful of people managing the SAPs of the agency that created it even know of the SAPs existence and/or what it protects. SAPs can even have sub-compartments that provide even further protection.

Practically speaking this offers what can be perceived to be "high levels of clearance" but in fact are all just plain jane Top Secret.

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