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Comment by fian | Hacker News Reader

Java Swing apps were portable across Windows, Mac and Linux desktops waaayy back in 2004 and probably earlier. Write once run everywhere _was_ very much possible back then.

The biggest complaint was they didn't look native. From working on a Swing application back then, management and marketing would often ask if we could make it look more like other Windows applications, because looking like a native Windows XP application suggested it was modern and cutting edge.

As soon an iTunes landed on Windows, the requests for UI improvement changed from "make it look like Windows" to "make it look sexy" - which meant different things to different people.

Electron, to me, feels like an attempt to take a browser engine and turn it into a poor replacement for the JVM.

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I worked on Java apps around that timeframe. Despite spending a lot of effort refining our widgets and using some animated transitions (ref the "Filthy Rich Clients" book) the applications generally felt more dated and cheaper-looking than native apps.

For enterprise apps with no strong competitors these minor aesthetic issues didn't impact revenue so those UIs remained in Java. But for everything else it was worth it (financially) to migrate to native.

I sometimes armchair quarterback and wonder whether Java would have been more successful if the Swing folks had focused more on design. It seemed like the most they ever did UI wise was attempt to catch up to platform native widgets so they were perpetually several years out of date and slightly inconsistent. Had they skated to where the puck was going to be rather than where it is perhaps Java applications would be the ones people pointed to when asking devs to "make it look sexy" instead of iTunes.

Yep, we did some deep customisation of a couple of key UI widgets and found it very time consuming. Changing the Look and Feel to Nimbus was a major improvement, but that came with semi-regular breakages when performing minor version JVM updates. I vaguely remember us overriding a couple of Nimbus defaults but finding that could have unexpected consequences elsewhere in the UI (ie LaFs are complex), so we didn't go down that path much.

While Swing styling support wasn't that great, I miss the flexibility of nesting layout managers for composing complex, resizable UIs.

When Java FX was first announced, I started learning it to see how we might use it for our applications. At the time it lacked a lot of widgets we needed, but it had much better support for styling. Sadly I didn't keep up with Java FX. While I have no direct need for it in my current job, I still get the itch to whip up the occasional desktop app, so I plan on getting back up to speed soon.

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