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Comment by chrisseaton | Hacker News Reader

Does anyone actually directly employ janitorial staff these days?

I have been involved with companies with government security clearances and organizations simply worried about intellectual property theft. As a rule, the most serious of those organizations do not allow subcontractors free rein of the building, which janitors need.

(Edit: Yes, I am aware of some high profile failures.)

I think you can get subcontractors that specifically provide cleared janitors. (The same way that for example the NSA famously uses cleared contractors for things like IT.)

But anyway, Docusign surely isn't an example of such a company or agency.

Yes, NSA’s high profile failure with Booz Allen is a great example of why some things should not be outsourced.

Is it? It's not like the various intelligence agencies haven't had their share of on-the-payroll moles.

In my own experience with such organizations, we were less worried about moles than by inconsistencies in vetting, training, and process.

But it’s the same clearance process and standard if you’re outsourced or not - they don’t do anything extra if you’re inside a service.

This has not been my experience. I was FSO for my organization. I was responsible for periodic training and internal audits. I have no way to know how well any other FSO or any other organization ran their periodic training and internal audits.

Yes, the check by the government is the same.

Docusign is certainly managing many proprietary documents.

I agree that it is likely that they outsource like other organizations. I still don’t think it is a good idea.

I've worked in aerospace and chemical companies where there's all kinds of data restrictions etc and both contract the janitorial staff

As have I. The most serious are not outsourcing.

Aren't there companies specializing in providing top secret cleared service staff, such as janitors?

I found out yesterday that our facility management is employed with us. But we also handle seriously sensitive data.

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