Comment by avgDev | Hacker News Reader

Comment by avgDev | Hacker News Reader

I had a professor from hell while doing my BS in CS. I was generally a straight A student. I really tried to do my best and cared about my grades. It was the first and last time when I went and talked about a professor to a department head.

Said professor came to class often unprepared. Deviated from the syllabus. He talked to some students that he wants to build games and not teach. This was an AI class. Throughout the course he kept telling us to keep our quizzes as they will be helpful for the midterm and final. He hasn't graded or returned any quizzes by midterm, and returned quizzes like a class before the final.

His teaching style was pathetic. All our curses were in Java, on first day he told us to install Visual Studio and write this program just to warm up. Then he gave us a problem to solve. 90% of class was installing the IDE and figuring out how to write programs in C# and VS during the duration said class. Literally one guy was doing alright who was a professional game dev using c#.

He would read straight from a book, sometimes using visual aids. Then would give a problem to apply said algorithm to and say "GO, if you have problems ask for help". 30 people were asking for help and he could barely help one by end of class.

Handful of times we got an email that he won't make it to class. One time 15 minutes into the class.

That game dev scored below passing grade on midterm and final. Same as rest of the class. The curve was so high my total 60% got me to an A. Still majority of the class failed.

I wish never to have a professor like him again and from what I heard he moved to a private sector.

Most of my CS faculty in undergrad were great, but there were a couple like the guy you describe. And I wonder why in the world they took jobs as lecturers. If you don't have a passion for teaching, why take a job that pays substantially less than what you get in industry? CS isn't like, say, English where there aren't enough nonacademic jobs to go around.

In contrast, most of my faculty in medical school were terrible teachers. But there it made sense why. They were either there because they wanted to work at a large quartenary referral hospital or because they wanted to teach residents (not students).

You take a job that pays substantially less than what you can get in the industry because it either pays more than other industry-adjacent jobs you can get. Or, you take a job that pays substantially less because you are required to teach as part of your post-baccalaureate degree requirements.

Some people teach because they want to. They have a strong desire to instruct and mentor people. To help others get better. Some people teach because they have to.

Primary education has different requirements than secondary (at least in the US). Typically, in primary education, you need a degree in education specifically and to be certified to teach in the state you wish to teach. To teach in secondary education, you need whatever requirements are set forth by the institution. Typically, you'll need a post-baccalaureate degree or be working towards one.

But as far as being "good" at the thing you're teaching. That's not necessarily required.

> And I wonder why in the world they took jobs as lecturers. If you don't have a passion for teaching, why take a job that pays substantially less than what you get in industry?

I don't know about this specific situation, but many professors enjoy and are good at research and see teaching as necessary overhead in their jobs. Professors tend to have much more freedom than people doing research in industry and for some people that's worth it.

Yes, that is the standard bargain for tenure-track professors at U.S. research universities. You pay a little bit of teaching time (0-2 courses a semester) and get an abundance of research time. Tenure decisions are mostly based on research success. Teaching plays almost no role. Essentially, you're on a six-year clock to get X number of top journal publications. That provides a massive incentive for professors to focus almost exclusively on research over teaching.

PhD students face similar incentives. While they might have to teach a course in order to earn their stipend, their job market success is based almost entirely on their dissertation. Every hour teaching is an hour not writing.

Adjunct professors ("lecturers") are different. Just speculating but... some professional flaws might only be tolerated in a university environment. You can go years as a lecturer without returning class quizzes. You can't go a month as a SWE without returning your boss's emails.

Caveat: American economist with experience working for governments and universities. Other countries may be different.

For an assistant prof, sure, this makes sense. But the people I had mind were lecturers - non-tenure track, non-core faculty who didn't do research and had almost no room for upward mobility.

> why take a job that pays substantially less than what you get in industry?

This is really only the case in the last 15 years or so. The vast majority of programmers weren't making into the 6 figures. The pay might have been marginally worse at a univ, but the benefits, QOL were probably better.

For lecturers? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sniff. Sniff. Oh, I haven't laughed that much in a while. Sorry. I couldn't help myself. But, seriously, now ...

Please do be careful to separate "tenured professors" who earn a salary and do research from "lecturers" who get paid by the course and do not do research.

"Tenured professors" get paid ... oookay ... sorta. "Lecturers" get paid absolute garbage.

I know that Stanford, for example, paid $4000 per course in the CS department not that long ago. Yes, "nominally" that class was only 6 hours per week lecturing so it looks like that's $55/hr. In reality, if you want to do a good job teaching that class, it's a 40 hour per week commitment for 12 weeks--which means you earn below both minimum wage and McDonald's.

Alternatively, you can give that same course to professionals and get paid $4K per person for a one week course.

Being a good lecturer is more akin to social work than a job.

I'm a full-time CS "Instructor" at a state university and get paid decently with full benefits. 9-month contacts. Not tenure-track.

It doesn't pay nearly as well as industry, but I love teaching and I'm tired of industry at this point in my career.

As an adjunct, though, pay was below McDonald's, yes.

> All our curses were in Java

Freudian slip?

Hah good catch and I definitely prefer C# over Java these days.

Had a Calc II course that was going well until the instructor left midway through for maternity leave. The replacement instructor was a young, attractive and buttoned-up Indian national who's English was borderline unintelligible. She took great personal offense when asked to repeat what she just said. I got A's in first year 5 hour Calc I, but I had to eat the C for first semester 3 hour Calc II.

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