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Comment by labrador | Hacker News Reader

The reason seems obvious to me. Young people can no longer afford to buy a house. Young people have a much harder time achieving the American dream.

When I was in my late 20's, early 30's I was able to get married, buy a house and start a family. It was almost automatic. That's just what you did. I found out after buying my house that it turned me into an adult who was invested in the system. Home ownership feels like the bedrock for a stable and sane society. I worked hard to attain and keep what I achieved.

Today young people are priced out of the housing market and are hesitant to have kids because the future appears grim. Why get married under these conditions? Why work hard? There isn't much reward so it doesn't sense to waste your time that way.

I never hear my theory discussed by wealthy people and their publications because they'd rather blame it on something else, especially on young people themselves.

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> Why work hard?

Whoa. Do you honestly think people younger than you don't work hard? I've got like three different jobs I've got to work just to make rent and sometimes eat.

Has no one remembered,

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millenn...

Most gen X and Z aren't working very hard. At least if you look at public schools and universities across the country, and the sentiment on r/antiwork. Many are putting in the bare minimum.

The entire point of the above comment and the article, they're not working hard because the millennials and those who have worked hard are still struggling and cannot make rent making three jobs. So there is seemingly no point. In the past, you put extra effort in university to get a well-paying job and your job to get a promotion; now there are people with Master's degrees who work in McDonald's and it seems like promotions only go to relatives.

You can run at 5k pace to finish a 5k, but you cannot run at 5k pace for an indefinite amount of time. Similarly, younger generations would push themselves harder if they believe it would make their future lives easier, but they don't.

Why would you view schools and reddit as conclusive data on how hard young people are working?

Why are they explaining my own situation to me as if they're some sort of expert?

> Most gen X and Z aren't working very hard

Did you mean to miss a complete generation?

> Similarly, younger generations would push themselves harder if they believe it would make their future lives easier, but they don't.

Where in the world are you getting this idea? I'm working as hard as I can. It just doesn't go very far. Look at the rise of housing prices and inflation. Look at interest rates. I can't even tread water, and to think it's any different is looking at a place of privilege I do not enjoy, and I'm calling you out on it.

>Most gen X and Z aren't working very hard. At least if you look at public schools and universities across the country

What am I supposed to be looking at? Is there any statistic you're referring to in particular?

>and the sentiment on r/antiwork

r/antiwork's population is self selected to be... antiwork. Extrapolating the beliefs of that population to the whole country makes zero sense.

I didn't say young people don't work hard, especially poor people who struggle to keep a roof over their head and their bellies full.

I'm saying there is less reason to work hard for many young people. I'm not talking about poor people. I'm talking about young people with jobs who are comfortable but see no reason to really buckle down and sacrifice when there is no reward and no upward mobility. If you can't afford a house and kids, then what's the point of going the extra mile (increase productivity)?

> I'm saying there is less reason to work hard for many young people.

There's just so "hard" one can work. The same amount of work is garnering less money: full stop. It's certainly not about "Well why work any harder?" It's that what you have is absolutely out of reach, no matter how hard you work.

> Young people can no longer afford to buy a house

nor afford college in USA.

After the big company bailouts (banks, cruise lines) I respect those who are choosing to opt out or vacation in place.

This doesn't look like a good argument.

Developing countries, have it way worse, and they have kids, stable families and wake up to go to work(Which is often a tough job) every single day, without asking themselves 'Whats the point of all this?'

You might want to check your other cultural/social incentive structures if they are rightly aligned and pay enough positives for people to start families.

Except in the US the political economy is effectively built on the idea that if you work hard, you'll get ahead.

> You might want to check your other cultural/social incentive structures

In fact, not working hard is seen as a moral failure, thanks to the Protestant work ethic. Is attitude is also seen in parts of Europe. So yes, please do question the cultural and social economic forces in play.

Developing countries? Generally outside the old work hard, get ahead mentality, and sometimes outside the entire developed western (post-industrial revolution) attitudes towards work, accomplishment, and happiness.

Are there any statiatics to support such claims?

E.g. number of median salaries to buy a median house or avg price of sqaure foot to median salary (to account for larger house size)?

>> Young people can no longer afford to buy a house. Young people have a much harder time achieving the American dream

Such fucking bullshit.

I'm old, I lived through what you apparently think was some sort of golden age, and it wasn't.

I mean where to start? Cost of tuition, the rate of inflation compared to minimum wage, the housing shortage, a financial crisis in 2008, a pandemic in 2020? Worldwide, runaway climate change? The use of nukes is in the news in a, "could be used any day now - who knows?" kind of way?

My first job in the 1980's paid me a salary of 20K. My wife and I bought our first house for 80K. I had full health insurance on my salary so we had a couple kids. Personal computers were creating new industries and the stock market was booming.

I'm sorry there were reasons things didn't work out for you.

Not bullshit. It was extremely common in the 70s and 80s to get a job at some factory and buy a house. My dad did it at Ford. His brothers at companies like Colgate, Reynolds, etc. Mostly one income households.

Where in the hell can you buy a house today with a blue collar job at any of those companies?

You can buy a shoebox in the sky or something tattered in the middle of nowhere. This is by design of course. All hail the central planners

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