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Comment by Max-Ganz-II | Hacker News Reader

I stopped using Amazon for shopping about two years ago, because of how they treat warehouse staff.

I never thought to work at Amazon, because I heard from multiple colleagues, former employees, that Amazon is profoundly metric based; then the stories such as this, about burning out staff, and about the fake PIP process, began surfacing.

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Not shopping at Amazon because the company is big enough to get media attention is a bit silly.

Do you know what the working conditions are like at any of the million non-Amazon warehouses?

Of course not, there’s no media attention for Bob’s fulfillment in Wichita, Kansas.

Here’s the truth: your friendly neighborhood warehouse down the street likely pays its employees far less, with far worse benefits, less safe facilities, and similar turnover.

It shouldn’t be the job of consumers to police labor practices—we’re really bad at it and only care if the company is big enough to get NYT coverage.

This is the role of government and law. If we really care about conditions for workers, we need to focus our attention there.

Right. Systemic problems require systemic solutions, and "voting with your wallet" is capitalist bullshit. They love to trot that one out, to make real change impossible.

The difference is that Bob's fulfillment isn't a billion dollar company with a CEO skimming billions of the top for himself. Bob probably pays himself a few times what his lowest paid employee makes. Bezos makes more money in a day than his lowest paid worker will earn in a lifetime.

So? Basically Bezos is able to make money while treating his employees better than competition and paying them more than competition... and I should be mad because he could pay them more if he wanted?

The issue is that short sighted people only focus on the here and now. They pay a touch more than their competitors and burn through employees like a gasoline fire through a paper house, sure, but the longer they can sustain this system the more competitors will stumble and fail along the way until they are the only option.

It worked for Walmart, and now Walmart is a trash company with trash products that treats their employees like trash while paying them such a low amount that many of them are on food stamps and government support and then keeping their schedules so screwed up that they can't better themselves out of the horrible situation without herculean efforts.

Amazon is following this pattern and will continue following it until market forces make them stop. And those forces do not exist and probably will not ever exist as long as there is money available for the desperate.

Where do they pay more than the competition for the same physicality of the job, and same injury risk, same pushing workers past what is safe? Show me a single business that has the same STATISTICALLY accurate (not your current 'seat of the pants' assessment) work (that means includes physicality of the job, you know, like resulting in workers peeing in soda bottles because they can't get a bathroom break without it impacting their job) for less wages. As someone who's been on the bottom labour run due to prison, NO ONE, NO ONE wants to go work at Amazon. We all took less pay for BETTER WORK QUALITY. No where did we take less pay for the same job.

I don't have stats, but the parent was arguing that even if you assume what I said is true, he still wouldn't use Amazon because somebody who makes more money should pay more, but their competitor doesn't have to because they're poor.

The injury rate at walmart warehouses are apparently much lower than amazon so no, amazon alternatives are not worse in regards to worker injuries. Amazon's algorithmic management is just that harmful. Not sure about the small time logistics companies, but if you want to make a claim put up some proof.

One could (without data) come up with some explanation about reporting rates, and while that should be investigated it would be weird to assume something like that without actual proof.

>According to their findings, Amazon workers are twice as likely to be injured on the job as e-commerce workers for Walmart, Amazon's closest retail competitor. The injury rate for Amazon's delivery drivers — who are classified as contractors rather than full company employees — also have an injury rate that is 50% higher than drivers for UPS, the groups found.

>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-injury-rate-highest-amon...

Likewise, and the extra reason of amazon being filled with low quality products. Now if only i could get people to move away from aws…

Me too and now i have better & cheaper alternatives where i live.

Can you list some?

I try to avoid it where possible, but for international shopping the options are sadly bit limited. It's pretty hard getting Japanese literature (in Japanese) shipped into tiny country in the east Europe. amazon.co.jp works reasonably well.

I've been pretty dismayed that sometimes when I buy products elsewhere the seller often just buys them off amazon and then ships them to me, basically defeating my whole effort.

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