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Comment by stvswn | Hacker News Reader

"a right-wing dystopia?" Seems like you'd prefer to redefine what it means to be left or right wing rather than admit that this is the outcome of left-wing governance.

The specific issues here are: tight control over building standards leading to red tape; high levels of process to ensure community review and involvement; paying more than market price for labor in order to support unions as a political value; supporting restrictive zoning to keep renters and homeowners in stable homes.

"Right-wing" imperatives did not create these issues.

Put another way, if a city elects left-wing politicians exclusively for 50 years, and those left-wing politicians enact policies and values consistent with their platforms -- it's probably not the case that negative results are because they're actually secret Republicans.

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I assumed it was an attempt at ideologically shirking accountability for the outcomes involved in elected officials doing what they were elected to do.

Could it be they meant a dystopia as right-wing might view or describe it?

As in "I'm right-wing; this is my idea of what a dystopia would be; SF seems like that."

Rather than "this dystopia is the result of right-wing policies." which clearly doesn't fit the facts, eh?

what is 'fact' and what is anecdote are unclear here, I've observed none of this personally, until then it is me suspending disbelief and relying on the words given to me for the interpretations and observations of those that I assume have more familiarity than me. I have no idea if it 'could be' that they meant X. I'm asking to know, not because I have an agenda.

No, I think the comment was meant to mean "this is not left-wing, this is late-stage capitalism, the problem is that we have too many right wingers in SF that are cosplaying progressivism"

In government, the continuum is not a line, it is a circle. If you go far enough left, or far enough right, you end up at the exact same place.

I don't think there are many ways in which SF is similar to a "very right wing" city. First of all, "right wing" politicians do not control any city governments in any real way, but if you were to compare SF with say, Houston -- which has radically different policies along these lines -- you wouldn't find that the results are the same.

In the American context, an extreme right-wing city government would theoretically provide very few public services, allow all property to transact in open marketplaces with very little red tape, allow for any use of property to meet market demand. In other words, you could build a gigantic high rise in Noe Valley but the city wouldn't pay for public toilets in any case (but someone could feel free to make pay toilets if they own or lease the land). Left wingers imagine that this sort of arrangement would lead to worse or similar outcomes for the poor than SF currently, but... I don't know, honestly.

> In the American context, an extreme right-wing city government

My businesses is in Carmel, Indiana. It is the definition of far right wing republican. There are often races where the only candidates are Libertarian or Republican. Here’s what it looks like:

* Constant growth driven by tax incentives.

* More roundabouts per capita and a corresponding low injury accident rate

* Fantastic public parks and commons (that drive up real estate values)

* best or near best public school system

* consistently in the top 10 places to live in the US

It’s been this way for 20 years. The city is expensive to live in and safe, and public transportation is minimal.

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