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> Addition: And I think one thing that really hurt the Android ecosystem is when Android phones went through that phase of every phone flagship phone had some sort of gimmick. Where as Apple really just buttoned down and developed a really solid phone. A lot of android phone makers were just focusing on gimmicks like styluses or niche features to set them apart from other Android instead of just really developing a good solid smart phone.

This is how I look at it as well. Because anyone can make an Android phone, Android phone makers had to either race to the bottom or come up with their special gimmick. Those that came up with a gimmick became the phone for people who care about that gimmick. But this ceded the domain of "people who don't particularly care about which phones have which gimmicks," aka most people, to Apple.

Pixel managed to break out of this by having their gimmick be "flagship by the people who wrote most of the OS, so, just generally well-implemented," but it took a while to get there.

I don't know. Only a few premium models support stylus. Rather, I think most Android phones are too similar than ecosystem should. Most phones are just big heavy and camera-focused. There are some gimmicks like Galaxy's edge screen but not every phone. Speaking about gimmicks, Dynamic Island. You may just want to say Android phone is crappier than iPhone.

People seem to like their Pixels, so I wouldn't want to call them crappy.

I dunno what a Dynamic Island is, sounds like a really unpleasant place to take a vacation.

Dynamic island is Apple's branding of their feature of having a camera cutout and some animations and lights to try to turn it into a UI element. It might uncharitably be called a gimmick. It's on their latest top-end phones.

My Android phone has two gimmicks.

- It's waterproof, dustproof, and shock-proof out of the box. I can image an iPhone can pull this off in a third-party protective case.

- It can sideload software; I have some important apps managed by f-droid. Sorry, iPhone can't do this by design. It's not "strictly better", every such decision is a balancing act. But it's what I prefer.

Things like microSD card, 3.5mm jack, etc are nice but not the essential differentiating factors.

I do use an iPhone happily. I’m an engineer of computers, and appreciate the ability to run my own things. Here is my take.

iPhones are engineered very well, and even stands up to abuse quite better than the run of the mill Android phones. Dust proof, water proof etc out of the box.

Man, do I wish regulators would force Apple to break their monopoly on App stores on iOS! Apple can keep their App Store exactly how it is today, but as a user I should be allowed to install “aftermarket” apps via side loading. Sure, I can fall for “insecure” unvalidated 3rd party apps pulling a scam on me, but that’s my prerogative, not Apple’s. They sold me hardware I paid for, they gave me an opportunity to spend and buy apps at their store, but that’s where it should stop. They shouldn’t be allowed to prevent competitors from selling apps to me unless they bend over to Apple. I just don’t see how this is any different from Microsoft bundling Internet Explorer with Windows and pulling dirty tricks from preventing people from installing/using 3rd party web browsers in the nineties.

As a long term android user, there are definitely great minimalist phones out there that give you a really good experience with little to no gimmicks. My current favorite is the Zenfone line from Asus. I have the Zenfone 8 and it's just brilliant. There's hardly any bloat, it's just android, no silly gimmicks, small form factor, decent camera and it has a 3.5 headphone jack. The newest model has all that and a much improved camera, and I've been eyeing it even though I really don't need to upgrade yet.

It was definitely a long way getting there but android is in a pretty great place right now.

I can't imagine ever going back to iPhones. I felt extremely crippled every time I tried to do anything. I remember having no access to the filesystem, having to use proprietary software (iTunes... never again) and having to jailbreak my iPhone to install custom ringtones from my own music. When I got my first android phone and could just plug it in, drag and drop files from my computer, I felt the strongest and weirdest catharsis, akin to "I don't have to suffer anymore".

You can use Garageband on iOS to make clips of music to create ringtones.

I've never owned an iPhone, and agree with you on every point based on my one and only experience with an iPod.

I've been dismayed with the bloat that's been creeping into Android phones (I'm currently on a Huawei P30).

I've never tried the Zenfone, but now I have to - thanks for the recommendation.

I switched to my first iphone nearly 3 years ago. I still have the same phone. At the time, I got it mainly because I wanted a waterproof phone. I've never had a phone get damaged by water, but I didn't want to worry about it either.

Unlike any previous (Android) phone I've had, it still feels just as fast as it did when it was brand new. To date, the longest I've had any phone is around 3.5 years, and in 2 out of 3 cases it was due to hardware failure. Even if this one were to die tomorrow I'd definitely get another, although I think it's more likely that this one will last at least another couple of years, at which point it will be ~5 years.

The so called gimmicks is progress, how would you know what sticks if you don't try?

And it was one of the best features of android.

Apple makes boring product, that makes it easy for app developers to test (recently less so).

AFAIR Android has still more de ices.

Android is more of a power user device (you can do more, you can root it, think hack as in hacker news).

From power user perspective iPhone is like Windows and Android like Linux.

> Android is more of a power user device (you can do more, you can root it, think hack as in hacker news).

For now. Remote attestation is becoming mainstream and every app will find a reason to require it. Computing freedom was the whole point of tolerating Android's imperfections. Without that, it's just a poorly kept Google walled garden. My next phone will be an iPhone.

> From power user perspective iPhone is like Windows and Android like Linux.

A widely adopted platform/operating system with every improving security fundamentals versus a kernel with numerous spins each awaiting their day on the desktop: This is apt in a manner the author certainly did not intended..

From my user perspective Android is Linux while iOS is more like Microsoft Bob

> when Android phones went through that phase of every phone flagship phone had some sort of gimmick

I don’t think they ever grew out of it.

https://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/phones/galaxy-z/

https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-razr-family

I bought a Galaxy fold last week and returned it yesterday. The form factor and larger screen was cool, but holy cow did Android feel like a huge downgrade from iOS. It was just all kinds of little quality of life things in iOS that I instantly missed. I think I needed something like one extra button press to get to the flashlight on Android and that did me in.

I don't use vendor ROMs, but on my past several phones with LineageOS, I can hold the power button for a few seconds when the screen is off to enable the torch. I can also double tap power for the camera.

I have both Galaxy Z Fold3 and iPhone 13 mini. Flashlight on Galaxy is really great. On settings, set double click power button to launch flashlight (perhaps most people use it to quick launch camera). It's really quick even compared to other Android phones I have ever. It's sad that it's not possible on iPhone, because mini is handy so suitable for flashlight.

I argue Fold is a real significant improvement in this decade for who need. There's no other way to have tablet on my pocket. Flip seems to just a gimmick for me.

To me having a phone that actually fits in my pocket is a luxury and I have no interest in having "a tablet in my pocket" so I feel exactly the opposite.

It's okay. I wish various products are available on market, rather than similar boring commodity devices. I don't want to pay only for great camera on phone.

I'm of the opinion that Apple iPhone will always be better of Android just because of a better GC process. Compile time ARC for Apple (https://microsoft.github.io/objc-guide/MethodsAndImplementat...) vs 100% runtime ART for Android (https://source.android.com/docs/core/runtime/gc-debug)

> I switched to my first iPhone last year and for me the determining factor was not feeling I had to constantly be on the upgrade path. I've has my iPhone SE (2020) and haven't been happier with a phone.

Indeed. I am on my fourth iPhone, an 11 pro now three years old that I expect to keep for at least another year. More would be nice, but that probably requires a battery change. I had my two previous phones for four years each, no problem. I really don’t understand people who just have to get a new phone ever year or two (or three)!

I got the Galaxy Note 10+ over 3 years ago and I can't imagine a a phone without a stylus now. The ability to take a note in a second without opening the phone is worth its weight in gold to me. As soon as somebody makes a foldable with a stylus I'm all in, just wish there was more options than Samsung.

The Galaxy Note with the stylus is one of the few that have panned out and stood the test of time. When it first came out, it was a bit gimmicky, but now that it has stood the test of time and isn't going anywhere, today it definitely is not a gimmick.

On android you’d be lucky to get more than a single OS update that added new features or functionality.

Or just buy a Pixel if you care about that.

Why people buy Samsung or other manufacturer phones, and then gripe that the company is as stingy with backwards support and updates as they've always been boggles my mind. Why would anyone ever think this time would be different?

And then you will get at most three upgrades!

At the 6+, it looks like it's at 5 years (or more). https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en

provided your phone doesn't bootloop or otherwise have the hardware fail. Android phones - from google in particular - are notorious for this. Should things fail, you're screwed.

What I’m seeing on that page seems to indicate that the Pixel 6 will receive Android version updates for 3 years after its release, and security updates for 5 years.

That’s security updates only not operating system updates,

For reference, Apple just released a security update for the 5s from 2013 this past June.

The 6S (2015) ran the latest OS until ios 16 this year.

It looks like the oldest phone with current support is from 2019. The 2017 iPhone is still getting OS updates. And up until September this year, the iPhone from 2015 was still on the current OS. Does any Android phone even get half long of a software update cycle?

iOS 12.5.6 was released in August to address a security vuln for the 5s, 6, etc.

The 5s debuted Sept 2013 as the first 64-bit phone, and the first phone with a Secure Enclave, so I'm kind of hopeful they'll just keep limping it along forever for good will... I own a pair of them and adore them dearly.

On the topic of iOS, be sure to check out https://libimobiledevice.org/, which provides utilities like ifuse that will even get you access to your Photos sqlite database; including all the machine generated tags, aesthetics scores and such.

Since around 2011, Apple has allowed you to download the “last compatible version” of apps from the App Store.

As of 2019 at least, I was able to reset my first ten iPad (2010) and redownload and use Netflix, Hulu, Crackle, Apple’s iWork suite, Spotify and play music that I had previously purchased from iTunes.

I've got a Moto 5G stylus, it was $280 on prime day, $450 normal. It'll get 3-5 more years of os updates. Battery lasts 2-3 days for me. It's so cheap I don't get insurance (would lose money in like 8 months) or care. I broke the screen 4 days in because I'm a dummy, but a replacement was on ebay for $40 shipped next day. I fixed it myself. No Multi-$K tool fixtures. I used an ios for other reasons. They're basically they same just slightly different. But I have an easily adequately powerful phone for 1/4 of an iphone and I don't even care if I break it or lose it, next day shipping replace or walk in purchase in a store.

So basically there are GREAT midline phones. I'm not coding on my phone, I m reading slack and email and taking photos.

Are you sure you will get 3-5 years of os updates? Is there a “plea” somewhere? And how many majors?

Are you sure it will keep working fine after two major updates or it will slow down terribly?

Frankly at $280, I don't care. But Moto has said they'll do android 13 at a minimum and they did well on my 2019 power so they've earned my trust I'll get 3-4 years of security updates. And compared to flagship prices I can take 4-5 updates even at every 2 years and still come out ahead. Even more if you include inflation.

You got the phone on sale. Visit deal websites and iPhones will sometimes be on sale for similar prices and will have updates for the same time period. Phones sometimes on sale in that range would be 2020 SE or iPhone 11s