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Comment by ajsnigrutin | Hacker News Reader

It seems that Elon thinks that there are too many managers (per coder) there

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1586686935518498816

At least in a dev situation I think 10-1 devs-to-managers is actually a pretty sizable ratio - I think ideally it's more of a 6-to-8ish to one.

Now, this of course assumes that engineering managers are not solely doing employee management but also are serving some "tech lead" type roles. I.e. even if an engineering manager isn't coding I think it's essential that (a) a considerable portion of their time is spent doing code reviews, (b) they should be working closely with product managers to define stories and requirements before the dev team starts implementing, etc.

That is, having line engineering managers solely do "people management" is universally a bad idea in my opinion. They should be getting their "hands dirty" in the tech aspects as well in order to be effective.

You read it backwards. He claimed 10-1 managers-to-devs.

Yikes, I did read it wrong! OK, that would be insane, but I'm still curious if (a) that's not a pretty gross exaggeration or (b) if there some sort of job titling that's making the ratios look weird, e.g. "product manager" doesn't actually manage any people, or the way everyone who works in a bank is a "VP".

obvious hyperbole, for the sake of his audience

"manager" can be subjective. You could claim a non-junior dev with a couple junior dev reporting to them and being mentored is a "manager".

That’s not subjective. That is a manager. If someone reports to you and you are responsible for them, you’re their manager, regardless of job title. Subjective is if he’s counting program/product managers, account managers, etc.

Isn't this another version of Chesterton's fence - lots of people may seem like they serve no apparent role, until they are gone. This is not to say there aren't some that in fact do serve no role, but careful consideration is required to determine who is who imho.

Sometimes those people change the work processes in a way to make their role important.. Need printer paper? You have to go through the old lady in the 3rd floor office, because noone else can order, store or give out office supplies, not even the office next door, where you can get ethernet cables and headsets.

Person who is not coding should not do code reviews.

Its a good narrative to have as you prepare for layoffs.

Are you taking something Elon Musk said seriously?

Remember when he said he would buy Twitter? What a lark!

Well he did basically have to be forced to actually buy it.

10 managers per coder seems a bit extreme. However, 3 managers, 7 "coders" engaging in social justice and one workhorse coder is entirely realistic.

I doubt though that Musk can figure out the actual workhorse in a short time. The posers are very good at self promotion.

Weeding out those who change pronouns in documentation and agitate on Slack would be a reliable start. From there, close reading of PRs, their usefulness and code quality is required. LOC is not an indicator.

As for managers, most of them are useless.

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