This is a language defect. If your language was invented in the 1960s it's an understandable defect, but it's still a defect. I do not want to write computer software with strings in a language that doesn't even have an actual string type rather than "Eh, maybe this is a string or maybe it's just some random bytes, who cares".
Only in very low level software should it make a difference whether the string is in fact represented as UTF-8 or UTF-16 or whatever, but Rust shows that you can write software at a low level and still enforce type safety for strings.
I agree though that here once again the Right Thing™ is a strong type system. If I've got a Microsoft Graph username, a URL, an email address and a UUID, that's four types, those are not four strings with human names to distinguish them. We don't need to escape some or any of these types - in their context.
Yes, it is, because you give that a type that indicates you don't know what the encoding is, like RawInput or something. You then can not pass this type to any other function that doesn't explicitly call for that type. If you have some function that accepts it, blindly casts it to UTF-8, and slams it out into a file, well, that's not the type system's fault [1].
Of course a type system won't prevent you from still just being wrong or writing bugs; nobody promises that, not even the formal methods advocates. But it will prevent you from just accidentally blindly shoveling it out somewhere it doesn't belong without ever examining it or thinking about it.
I think you may be believing in a popular myth about strong typing systems, that they are designed to somehow prevent bad data from coming in to your system at all. You correctly identify that as impossible. But what strong typing systems can do is force you to deal with the fact that bad data may be coming in. On the outside, you have the chaos of, say, a bag of bytes that may or may not be JSON. On the inside, you have a "type SomeStruct { int a; int b }". A strong type systems forces you to write some sort of adapting code between those two, and guarantees that the result of that adapting code will be only and exactly the type that comes out of that adapting code, no "whoops, sometimes this dynamic code just returns a string, or maybe a network socket, or who knows what". Nothing can prevent your HTTP API from receiving a JPG of an anime character instead of JSON specifying a user to delete, but a strong type system can make you deal with that immediately and fully, instead of garbage data of indeterminate type floating through the system for an indeterminate period of time.
[1]: Also note there are a lot of "strong type systems" in the world that still fail to take advantage of their own capabilities and let bare string types and such float around too much. There are reasons why libraries must support the lowest common denominator; a file is a series of bytes with no further constraints, so the lowest level API has no choice but to accept that, but higher level APIs should more often take more restricted types. That strong type systems can save you from this doesn't mean they all do. I have a number of wrapper types in various languages just to add these guarantees to my programs not provided by the underlying libraries, though I also have some code that just wraps the underlying libraries that can't help but correctly take raw bytes at the lowest level.
Unfortunately, if you interact with services you didn't write, you're usually back to getting "strings" of unknown encoding, and typically requirements that force some blind or semi-blind guessing.
That's just as true in Java as in Rust. The problem is languages like C++ or D which just don't care and have a "string" type that might just be some bytes.
This, again, goes back to a very broken understanding of types systems that I often see, and once held myself. The claim of type systems is not that they magically go out into the world and fix the external world to be well-typed; the claim is that it forces your code to deal with the conversion of the external world into a clean internal representation, and presumably, to have a clean error pathway when that fails. Dynamically-typed code will let you float along much more easily. Statically-typed code can still be written that way, but at least then it's poor statically-typed code. In some circles that sort of broken dynamic code is essentially idiomatic. (Though that is fading away as every year more programmers learn how bad an idea that is.)
So when you wanna convert that OsStr to a String you are forced to handle this in one way or another. This is less comfortable, but describes the underlying systems more accurately.
Also, not all strings/texts should be thought of as Unicode code points/graphemes.
A type that says (say) "this is a string containing html PCDATA" is a useful thing to have.
Say a user inputs some raw text in a form that is intended to be the title of a button in a HTML form that will be sent in a JSON file to be stored in a SQL db. The expectation is that you can later retrieve this HTML snippet from the DB and display it on the screen.
You have to first escape the raw text from the user so that it can be safely used in HTML - so you will go from user_input_string to html_pcdata_escaped_ user_input_string. Then you compose a bit of HTML that contains the button and this part; let's say you store it in some HTML DOM object. Then you want to send this HTML object as JSON, so you have to know to convert html_pcdata_escaped_ user_input_string into json_string_escaped_user_input_string - but that loses type information which may hurt us later, so maybe we want to actually store it as json_string_escaped_html_pcdata_escaped_user_input_string. Then, if we want to use this as part of an SQL query string, by the same considerations, we want to put it in a mysql_like_filter_escaped_json_string_escaped_html_pcdata_escaped_user_input_string - which is getting really ugly, and easy to mess up.
Of course, the order of escaping matters, so an mysql_like_filter_escaped_json_string_escaped_html_pcdata_escaped_user_input_string and a json_string_escaped_mysql_like_filter_escaped_html_pcdata_escaped_user_input_string are different things that need to be decoded differently (of course, for SQL in particular we could use prepared queries instead).
Also, we can't ever concatenate this with any other string-like type until perhaps the final use point (such as sending a query string to the DB), since we need to remember which part of the string is escaped in which way, and for what types of uses it is safe (an HTML-escaped string may still contain SQLi or JSON injection).
The point is that even with proper types, this is not easy to manage or fix.
It also requires quite advanced type systems to be able to use these in normal contexts - say, you want to store several such strings with different provenances in a Map or Set or even List, without "forgetting" the provenance.
It's then up to us to decide how to best make use of the type system of whatever language we end up implementing it in (or, indeed, to treat the ability to deal with this well as a requirement when we're choosing a language).
For me, effects like "we can't ever concatenate this with any other string-like type" are desirable features, not problems with this approach: either it's possible to convert both strings to a common form, or I shouldn't be trying to combine them.
In practice, in a typed language, nothing like this ever occurs, because the rule is just: "use string for everything, except the edge".
You're thinking of a type like: HtmlString<JsonString<Utf8String>>>
In practice the type that is "passed around" is almost always just "string", and this is converted at the last moment to a single destination format, such as HtmlString.
When writing to databases, there isn't even an escape step at all, because you use parametrised queries, right? Right!?
The database stores "string", not "DatabaseEscapedString".
This is similar to how instants in time ought to be handled. You store them as UTC and convert to the user's time zone at the last moment. You don't pass around some monstrosity that somehow keeps track of +10-5+3 in order to arrive at +7. That would be absurd. Instead you pass around the "Z" UTC timestamp and add +7 when needed.
That's what happens in practice, of course. The GP was proposing something else, and I was explaining how complicated that gets.
> and this is converted at the last moment to a single destination format, such as HtmlString.
I explained before why this doesn't work unless we're talking about the final destination of this string. Otherwise, if that string is being taken through various encodings (say user input to JSON to sprintf format string to HTTP body), and if you need to combine safe and unsafe input, then what you're saying doesn't work anymore.
Here is a sketch of an example:
userInput := read()
jsonFormat := "{\"context\": \"%s\", \"input\": \"" + json.escape(userInput) + "\"}" //easy and safe
finalJson := ""
sprintf(finalJson, jsonFormat, "some context")
// oops - unsafe if original input was "%s"
sprintf(finalJson, printf.escape(jsonFormat), "some context")
// oops - does the wrong thing - it will output "{\"context\": \"%s\", \"input\": \"%s"\"}
//let's try the other way around?
userInput := read()
formatStr := "{\"context\": \"%s\", \"input\": \"" + printf.escape(userInput) + "\"}" //easy and safe
finalJsonStr := ""
sprintf(finalJson, formatStr, "some context")
// oops - unsafe if userInput was "safe-looking\", \"bypassAuth\": \"true\"}"
sprintf(finalJson, json.escape(formatStr), "some context")
// oops - does the wrong thing - it will output
// "\"{\\\"context\\\":\\\"some context\\\", \\\"input\\\": \\\"safe-looking\\\", \\\"bypassAuth\\\": \\\"true\\\"}\"" - that is, a JSON string instead of a JSON object
The only solution to get this to work is to keep the user input string entirely separate from any other string, and apply escaping to it individually at every level where it is used.Additionally, you will need to remember what escaping has been applied to it, and in what order, so that it can be un-escaped back to the original value when needed.
This is how you put the safety on and return the gun into its holster:
using System;
using System.Text.Json;
string maliciousInput = "{0} % $0 -- DROP TABLE \"USERS\"";
// Always, always, ALWAYS use a proper serializer for assembling formats like JSON.
// The malicious input can include actual JavaScript, and it'll be correctly encoded with 100% safety.
string encoded = JsonSerializer.Serialize( new {
context= "{0}", // .NET format string placeholder
input=maliciousInput
});
// This will just work, formatting placeholders are ignored if no parameters are specified
Console.WriteLine(encoded);
// A safe FormatException is thrown if you mis-use the string formmating code.
// No vulnerability other than DDoS.
Console.WriteLine(encoded, "adfasfd");
Test here: https://dotnetfiddle.net/p8P1fOFundamentally, putting any format like JSON or any user-controlled input into the first parameter of sprintf or any similar function in any language is Wrong with a capital W. It ought to be picked up in code review.
Ideally, sprintf-like functions in strongly typed languages should use a special "FormatString" type instead of a plain string as the first input. This would automatically fix any such issues, but relying on this is still problematic. Naively printing potentially malicious input to places like the console is still quite dangerous, no matter how much you escape it! Logs can be captured into systems that then paste it directly into HTML. Similarly, console control codes can be used by attackers as a nuisance. Etc... Structured logging, along the lines of OpenTelemetry is safer.
See: https://owasp.org/www-community/attacks/Log_Injection
This is the safe equivalent of your second example. Both format strings and JSON are correctly handled:
Console.WriteLine( "{0}", JsonSerializer.Serialize( new {
context="{0}", // if sprintf/WriteLine is not misused delibaretely, this is safe!
input="safe-looking\", \"bypassAuth\": \"true\"}"
}));
This outputs: {"context":"{0}","input":"safe-looking\u0022, \u0022bypassAuth\u0022: \u0022true\u0022}"}
Link: https://dotnetfiddle.net/Lm8jkRAlso, DoS is a legitimate concern, and of course using a safe language makes other consequences less dire. I wasn't using sprintf() in my example for nothing.
> Naively printing potentially malicious input to places like the console is still quite dangerous, no matter how much you escape it! Logs can be captured into systems that then paste it directly into HTML.
This is exactly my point: when you include untrusted input into another string, even if you escape the untrusted input correctly for the desired format of that string, the entire output is now untrusted, and generally can't be further processed safely. Yours is a perfect example: you can escape the user input to make sure it is formatted safely, but you can't at this point tell in what other ways it should be escaped for other systems that may process it (for example, even printing to the actual console like this may be unsafe, as the user input may include terminal control characters).
Even this problem is still simple if we can assume that, say, anything printed to the console that later needs to be displayed in HTML should be considered an HTML string - it just becomes a simple responsibility of the log collector to properly escape the log lines as HTML content.
The problem is much harder if the intention is to actually control the HTML output through log lines (say, adding new-lines through br in your log statements, or emphasis or whatever). If that is a necessary component of your system, you need to re-architect this so that log lines themselves are no longer simple strings, but are structured so that any user-controlled input is kept separate from the trusted application-control formatting
Say, instead of logging
error: user entered "some|||string<script\>alert('pwned')</script>" which is not a valid number<br>starting over
you would log error: user entered %s, which is not a valid number<br>starting over ||| some\|\|\|string<script\>alert('pwned')</script>`
and the log collector would need to know to recombine it into the original string, escaping the untrusted part as needed, before outputting it to HTML as error: user entered "some|||string<script>alert('pwned')</script>", which is not a valid number<br>starting over
Edit: interestingly, I had to use <script\> instead of a normal opening script tag, as HN would give me a TLS error if the comment contains the normal opening script tag...Wonder if there is some input sanitization going on here as well.
Your example where you use a sprintf format-string placeholder inside an incomplete JSON snippet ought never be used! Ever.
It's not needed in practice. Construct the object graph and insert the parameters there (unescaped!) and then serialize the whole thing.
E.g.:
JsonConverter.Serialize( new {
// Use a static format string! Never let users control this...
context = string.Format( "{0:N1}", userControlledMaliciosInput ),
alsoThis = "... json snippet...",
});
This is fine.But as I was saying, the "even better" solution is to not serialize this into JSON and then "work with the string representation". The use of JSON[1] should be a detail transparent to 99% of the application. You should be able -- safely -- to switch it out for XML, gRPC, Cap'n Proto, or whatever.
Going back to my logging example, it ought not to matter what wire format something like OpenTelemetry uses. You should be able to use "rich" object graphs in logging calls, and then let the library figure it out. E.g.:
Log.Information( "user submitted a form", new {
context = string.Format( "{0:N1}", userControlledMaliciosInput ),
alsoThis = "... json snippet...",
});
Ideally, everything should treat this as the native "object" graph whenever the developer interacts with it. Only the "edges", such as RPC serialization or deserialization needs to deal with encoding, at which point it'll need to use exactly one escaping/encoding format and not have worry about nested encodings at all.[1] A mistake in the design of JSON is that it appears to be "simple", so beginner programmers think they understand it and can work with it "directly" using string manipulation. This is ill-defined at the best of times, and downright unsafe in surprisingly common scenarios: http://seriot.ch/projects/parsing_json.html
It is very common to have templating languages which include their own syntax + the syntax of a target output language (e.g. Markdown supports HTML snippets that should get output to the final HTML as is; C macros support C code snippets, and C itself supports Assembler snippets that should end up in the final binary etc). When generating/processing the mixed format from your own code, you may often hit the problems above.
Even for JSON, there are legitimate reasons for processing stored JSON documents as text, or at least situations where it seems a safe enough approach - because people tend to forget that a string representation of a JSON document that has user-controlled input should be itself considered untrusted user input in its entirety, at least unless it is parsed by a JSON parser.
Additionally, data often has to be stored to unstructured storage (e.g. disk) between the moment you receive untrusted user input and the moment you output the final format to the user - again, doing the easy thing of storing in the intermediate format with the first level of escaping of untrusted input is extremely tempting, and the alternative is significantly more difficult.
If you have formats "A" and "B" with serialization functions A() and B() that take document object models as inputs (not strings!), then nesting them is valid, but a bit of a code smell.
What you're saying is that there are scenarios where A() and B() take strings and return strings, and those strings can have control codes that "mean something" for A and/or B.
That's inherently bad and dangerous, and was the direct cause of one of the WORST vulnerabilities in history. Literally as bad as anything ever out there.
You're saying "maximum bad" is a good idea sometimes. This is like making the argument that a little nuclear war is acceptable on occasion.
> there are legitimate reasons for processing stored JSON documents as text
No, there isn't. Stop. Never do this. Ever.
Don't parse HTML or XML with Regex either. It leads to m̷͉̈a̴̳̚d̶̟̐n̴̩̓e̷̘̿s̴̤͆s̵͉͗: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open...
If you're writing a web framework or a DB library things might be different though - in that case a different class probably makes sense. If you have a module for a certain communication medium, then yeah you might use it in that module. But if you're writing a webapp, passing around escaped strings is a bad idea 99% of the time. It creates code highly coupled to one aspect of your system.
Just imagine if you did this with networking. I'm glad we're not in a world where we're passing around TCPString or UDPString or IPString or EthernetString or TokenRingString or CarrierPigeonString because that happens to be a networking stack the app uses sometimes. It sounds like hell.
That's correct, but it's the reverse thinking from the escaping one.
Because in the escaping one, when you need not to escape you will also not-escape at the last possible moment, and that's a sure-fire way to launder attacker-controlled data.
Instead you should escape everything, and opt-out as early as possible.
> But if you're writing a webapp, passing around escaped strings is a bad idea 99% of the time. It creates code highly coupled to one aspect of your system.
That's why you do the reverse: most strings are unsafe to everything, but the strings which are safe are generally safe to one specific subsystem. So you say that.
> Just imagine if you did this with networking. I'm glad we're not in a world where we're passing around TCPString or UDPString or IPString or EthernetString or TokenRingString or CarrierPigeonString because that happens to be a networking stack the app uses sometimes. It sounds like hell.
It sounds like hell because it makes no sense, there's no such thing as a TCPString because TCP is not string-based and TCP messages are not composed that way.
That’s not even remotely workable for any system with more than one kind of “escaping”. What if I want to use a string as:
1. An IDNA-encoded domain name
2. An HTML text snippet
3. A shell command string argument
4. A string literal part of a regular expression
5. A part to be used in an XML CDATA section
6. A JSON string
I can’t escape the string beforehand, since the escaping rules are all different. No, the only sensible alternative is to use the same rule which we all use for character encoding: Encode and decode (and escape) at the edges.
You’re still misunderstanding. You shouldn’t escape at any point, instead you should mark things as safe as early as possible.
“Safe” almost always has a single context, you don’t care if it’s going to go somewhere else because it’s not safe for there.
Anything that’s not marked as safe is then automatically considered unsafe and processed as such by the sink.
> What if I want to use a string as:
It’s not an issue, because by default nothing is safe anywhere, so all those APIs should treat the injected data thus.
There is no escaping, because everything is automatically internally escaped by default.
No library does this, since it does not know what strings I send it with their literal meaning intended, and which strings I send it with their escape characters intended to be interpreted. The escape characters are part of the API of that library. The library does not accept “strings” as such, it accepts “escaped” strings. And since my program deals with normal unescaped strings, I have to escape the strings before I send them to the API.
> There is no escaping, because everything is automatically internally escaped by default.
I have a feeling that you have a different meaning of the word “escaped” than me.
Most modern templates do exactly that. Jinja certainly does.
> The library does not accept “strings” as such, it accepts “escaped” strings. And since my program deals with normal unescaped strings, I have to escape the strings before I send them to the API.
That’s the problem with the library. That is what needs to be fixed.
> I have a feeling that you have a different meaning of the word “escaped” than me.
Add “explicit” to the first occurrence if you don’t understand without it.
Agreed. My future perfect programming language has the predefined types 'ascii', 'utf-8', 'url', 'base64', etc. for misc kinds of character sequences.
Just like how raw bits are different from numerals: short vs byte, word vs int, 64-bits vs double, etc.
(Any one have a better naming system for 8, 16, 32, and 64 bit chunks of raw data? 'byte', 'word', 'doubleword', 'quadword'?)
Per this "ridonkulously hard" OC article, I'll also ponder predefined types for raw 'html5', 'json', etc (as in unparsed, char sequence vs DOM).
--
> Perl was early with its concept of “tainted” strings.
Not being a Perl dev, I'm unfamiliar with "taint". Quickly found articles like this: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/perl-taint-method/
In my future perfect language, char seqs cannot be cast. They must be converted. Basically syntactic sugar for Java-style char encoding infrastructure.
I have assumed that disallowing casting was sufficient. But now I'll have to ponder "taint" too. From the hip, I really like the notion of tracking the provenance of data, a la defensive programming.
Great idea. Thanks.
So all you need to do, is to do that properly. Either you commit to using constructs like paramtrized queries instead of concatenizing strings and use the DOM to put together HTML the way you want, or you escape as you concatenate the strings.
Don’t store escaped strings, it’s a recipe for disaster.