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Comment by Dork1234 | Hacker News Reader

So which framework should you use? It is easy to say XYZ is bad, but what do you use instead, ASP.NET?

Laravel looks like the most mature fullstack framework. .NET and Java might be nicer on the backend, but they are a decade behind the competition on the frontend. The javascript community doesn't seem to want a fullstack CRUD framework, the consensus seem to be that every project should make its own ad hoc framework, like the PHP community did 10+ years ago. This resulted in a lot of spaghetti code, and javascript, even with their advanced libraries, isn't much better. The downside of not betting on javascript is that "everyone" knows javascript by now.

I chanced on https://adonisjs.com/ the other day. It's modeled to be somewhat similar in ecosystem, batteries included and some syntax/layout to Laravel. Haven't really tried it yet but the community seems to be very active, there is also https://adocasts.com/ for eg.

> The downside of not betting on javascript is that "everyone" knows javascript by now.

I'd say: everyone thinks they know javascript. Learning a new language is easy (especially with C-like syntax) but not the library. The language having nearly zero standard library makes it change under your feet on every different context. Deno started the initiative to supply what you get in the browser everywhere, but the browser being a GUI environment, the missing stuff need to come from somewhere, like the Deno.listen[0]. .NET is not much better with one million different runtimes with different platform support and capabilities.

[0]: https://deno.land/api@v1.27.0?s=Deno.listen

First and foremost, I don't go SPA/React by default on every project, so that reduces a lot my need of the kind of framework I think you're thinking about.

Now, if I do need a lot of interactivity in the frontend, I use Inertia with Laravel, which gives me a real full stack, robust, battle tested, well integrated and very productive solution.

And Adonis is great if you want to stay in jsland

> ASP.NET?

I do - .NET (since 5) has been great. And you've got stuff like Blazor for the frontend if you want to avoid JS entirely.

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