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Comment by blueflow | Hacker News Reader

If people throwing tantrums becomes the new way to approach problems, the climate situation is going to be one of our lesser problems.

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What are the civil approaches that make a difference to you? Voting blue? Logical debate? Patience for scientific progress?

Not harassing and annoying unrelated people. If your cause is holy enough that you feel entitled to harass me or vandalize my property, you are my enemy, regardless of what your goals are.

That would have put you as the enemy of a lot of people who made great progress. Do you think a of the rights we have today were won by people playing nicely and politely? Suffragettes, abolitionists, labor activists

> Do you think a of the rights we have today were won by people playing nicely and politely?

Yes. They identified correctly who they need to apply pressure on. If they had harassed the general population, they would have failed. Instead they were agreeable enough that they attracted allies more than they created backlash.

What's the difference between a sit in at a department store, lunch counter or diner and one at an art gallery

Glue

I understand that you are unlikely to agree, but environmentalists would argue that the correct group to apply pressure on are people who are responsible for fossil fuel being burned, either directly (eg. cars), or by purchasing products with embodied emissions, which are not necessary for survival, that is practically everyone alive in a developed country today.

Neolib take that the solution is to make better purchasing decisions as individual consumers per your examples

Consumers create demand. Demand acts as a pulling force in the economy causing increased supply as the market adapts.

But if that isn't sufficient on its own, elected leaders rule by the mandate of the electorate, making every adult in every democratic country share responsibility for the decisions of their elected leaders.

Take your pick. Or don't and keep enjoying the benefits of capitalism without taking on the responsibility. But then you are no different to those who stood on the wrong side of history in the societal transitions of the past.

thanks for elaborating on what the neolib position is. though it's not even correct in terms of the point about history, see wengrow/graeber research for instance

Feel free to elaborate on your point. I'm not doing your research for you.

fuck off

Then prohibit fossil fuels or make it prohibitively expensive or something like that, instead of harassing random people. Heck, if you wanna glue yourself to something, at least do it in front of some politicians door, not mine.

That's literally what the group are trying to do, but that decision has to be made by people in charge. That's what protest is for.

This just happened:

https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/charlottenburg-wilmersdorf/r...

Please don't try to argue that this was a necessary sacrifice.

Can you be more specific? I didn't ask what doesn't work

It is your problem that you don't know what to do. Just don't make it my problem by sabotaging my commute or my workplace. I'm just a random person, i can't help you, either.

you misunderstand. you would have been as disturbed and pooh-poohing at even MLK protests, here's a quote that could have been yours if you have the capability to consider your position in a different but recent life:

>Just as we formerly pointed out that "hatred and violence have no sanction in our religious and political traditions," we also point out that such actions as incite to hatred and violence, however technically peaceful those actions may be, have not contributed to the resolution of our local problems. We do not believe that these days of new hope are days when extreme measures are justified in Birmingham…

>We further strongly urge our own Negro community to withdraw support from these demonstrations, and to unite locally in working peacefully for a better Birmingham. When rights are consistently denied, a cause should be pressed in the courts and in negotiations among local leaders, and not in the streets. We appeal to both our white and Negro citizenry to observe the principles of law and order and common sense.

You did not understand me. I want to live my life, don't harass me or pull me into your fights. And don't attribute random US politics to me. I'm glad these are none of my business, and i want it to stay that way.

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