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Comment by i_am_proteus | Hacker News Reader

The key to this adding safety is predictability.

As a former bicycle commuter, I had to ride defensively because automobile drivers would behave unpredictably around me, but I can't be certain how much of that was because bicyclists are, as a whole, unpredictable. Commuters and tourists on rental bicycles behave very differently.

Rolling stop signs and lights when safe to do so is normal for bicyclists everywhere (when police are not present). Legalizing it so that automobile drivers become accustomed to it makes things safer. The principal hazard to surrounding traffic from a cyclist is when a car makes a sudden move in response to behavior by the cyclist that the car driver did not anticipate.

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> automobile drivers would behave unpredictably around me

I wonder what the law is when I'm on a 40-50 mph 2 lane highway with a 1-2 ft margin and a bicyclist is in the margin going 20 mph and I have to swerve across the double yellow into oncoming traffic to avoid hitting them.

This would depend on local laws, however in general, an automobile temporarily crossing a double yellow to give a cyclist more room is entirely predictable.

Automobile drivers who swerve (sudden steering input) in such a situation should give more attention to what lies ahead or, if visibility is poor, reduce speed. A relative speed of 20-30 mph with any hazard or obstacle should not require sudden inputs, but rather should be within the driver's control via smooth application of vehicle controls that are less likely to cause undesired behavior such as brake lock, and which also will not surprise other motorists.

Of course, the proliferation of cell phone use while driving vehicles of all sorts contributes to this sort of unpredictable behavior, since drivers who split time between observing the road and observing a cell phone's display will have reduced reaction time.

First off cycling in such a place is utter insanity and is resolved by dedicated cycle lanes and paths. As someone who cycles daily I would never cycle anywhere where the speed limit for cars is above 30mph unless the cycle path is separated by at least a median.

The law for passing cyclists should be to stay behind the cyclist until it is safe to pass. Just because you're in a car doesn't mean you have some immutable right to drive the speed limit regardless of circumstances. Of course when there's frequently cyclists on high speed roads that quickly becomes untenable, but for that situation re-read the first half of my comment.

> First off cycling in such a place is utter insanity and is resolved by dedicated cycle lanes and paths.

This is infeasible in Amish country, where there are lots of long stretches of straight roads with high speed limits.

You’re entirely correct about what the law should be, and at least in PA, that is what the law is. Those of us in Amish country are also used to sharing the road with larger slow-moving vehicles like buggies and farm tractors. I treat a cyclist the same way: follow at a safe distance until I can pass in the opposite lane, like the law says. It’s unfortunate that enough people are failing to do so that as often as not I get a friendly wave, when I eventually pass, for simply being a responsible driver.

> This is infeasible in Amish country

I'm sure that the Amish have all the technology needed to build cycle paths if they so desired.

> It’s unfortunate that enough people are failing to do so that as often as not I get a friendly wave, when I eventually pass, for simply being a responsible driver.

Even in a bicycle friendly place like the Netherlands you'll often enough see cars trying to squeeze past cyclists in dangerous ways. Changing human nature is hard, changing infrastructure not so much.

The California DMV package used to say to do just that; wait until safe and then cross a bit into oncoming traffic.

It also says that when the lanes are too narrow, the bicyclist is supposed to "take the lane" but that never happens.

However the roads that are 40-50 mph are much wider than people think.

Legally, treat the bicycle as you would a tractor. Slow down to their speed, give them plenty of space, and wait until it is safe to pass.

And when you get home, advocate for better cycling routes in your area.

> I wonder what the law is when I'm on a 40-50 mph 2 lane highway with a 1-2 ft margin and a bicyclist is in the margin going 20 mph and I have to swerve across the double yellow into oncoming traffic to avoid hitting them.

The same as any other slow moving vehicle on the edge of a road that doesn’t let you pass in the lane; I’ve run into that issue a lot more often with farm equipment than bicycles.

> I wonder what the law is

As a driver you should already know what the law is in that scenario

I know it's already been said, but:

  swerve across the double yellow into oncoming traffic to avoid hitting them.

Jeepers. You should probably take some classes on driving if you think this is the correct behavior in that situation. Any time you're behind another vehicle, you should stay behind them until it is safe to pass. If that means driving at 20mph for a mile, who cares? You're in a climate controlled metal box with a stereo system. All it requires is patience. But apparently you think you're better off putting another human being's life at risk instead of waiting until it's safe to pass?

I wonder what you would do if your mother, father, daughter or son was riding that same "bicycle in the margin". Would you be just as blasé about their life and limb?

> for a mile, who cares

Umm... these roads often go on for several miles without a pull off. Literally nobody does what you're saying, that's ridiculous. I've never seen a car trailing a bike in the margin going 20-30 mph below the speed limit for miles "Jeepers"

> Would you be just as blasé about their life and limb

How is it "blasé" that I'm putting myself in danger to pass wide and protect the bicyclist?

How many seconds do you reckon it takes to pass a cyclist if you are capable of going from 20mph to 40mph in about 4 seconds? Swerving and gunning it hardly seems necessary if you have any visibilty whatsoever.

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