Ask HN: Startup life: Working hard to enrich other people? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Startup life: Working hard to enrich other people?

9 pointsthrowaway778911 comments

It has sort of dawned on me that working as a non-founding employee in a startup is like working hard to enrich other people (the founders, some investors, etc).

In a big company, things are a bit more "spread out". It's very unlikely that your work may catapult your big company into stratospheric valuation levels. At most, you will help improve the product line and increase profits, which are enjoyed by all employees via stock options.

In a startup, the work of some key employees may make the difference between a viable/successful product and a failed product, and in turn may make the difference between a huge exit and complete failure.

The thing is, though, that those key employees are unlikely to see much of a return on their hard work. From all the horror stories we have been reading about on HN lately (about preferred stock, etc) there are many ways in which employees end up with a pittance. The people who end up with the most money are the investors, the founders and maybe some high-level executives that were brought in.

It seems very demotivating to me to think that my work is basically just a pursuit of making other people rich.

Big company life may not be as 'exciting' as startup life, but it seems more motivating to do your share and get your share in return.

Even in big companies, I can see that executives make far more when the stock goes up than regular employees, but it's not like those executives will make zero without you. You are a small piece of the big picture and are rewarded accordingly (with a good salary, usually great benefits, and stock options). In a startup you could be a big piece of the puzzle and still not make much, even if your contributions result in others making millions instead of zero.

Of course, a lot of people are in it for more than just the money, but still when I recently saw all those higher-ups together and realized that my team and I are working hard to essentially enrich others, it has been very demotivating.

What do you guys think?

"It has sort of dawned on me that working as a non-founding employee in a startup is like working hard to enrich other people (the founders, some investors, etc)."

Exactly my thoughts. You put as much effort as a founder with a payout many times less. You even might get shown the door when it gets bought out.

This is why I won't ever work for a startup..unless it's my own.

So you're just dismissing all the things you could learn in an early stage startup?

"So you're just dismissing all the things you could learn in an early stage startup?"

If you want to break your back for little to no payout and high risk, go for it. However, I feel you can learn just as much if you own your own startup and the risk/reward ratio is much better.

I agree. You can learn just as much doing it all by yourself.. and even more. Even in a startup, you're shielded from other areas like marketing or business development.

Very true. I worked for a startup before and although I did get some experience out of it, I was there to do my one job, which was development. I didn't really learn much about the business because I wasn't given the opportunity.

I learned more in 4 months running my own startup and it feels more rewarding to me..even if I fail.

This is why I found my own companies instead of joining startups. I don't mind financial or business risk, but I do mind risking my time on behalf of someone else.

I think it's reasonable for a startup founder to get rich off of the efforts of employees, provided he treats them well and offers pay comparable to the amount of work expected.

However, if an employee is supposed to work 60+ hour weeks because "we're in a startup," then I have a serious problem.

Given I have 60/hours a week to work, I can work at big company for 40 of them (same salary) and spend 20 on my own business.

Here's the perspective of a founder who has worked for big companies. I don't like the "Us vs Them" logic applied to startups - whether it's employees vs founders or founders vs VCs. Everyone is trying to make money and the reason why the upside is bigger for some is the same as in any other business - because they take more risk.

The founders should get the biggest upside, then investors (and among those the early investors more), then early employees, then all other employees. The founders risk their reputation, personal life, money and often friends' money to start a company. Investors put their money at risk at a stage when it's not clear if the company is going to succeed. And early employees put a bet on a company that can be gone in less than a year.

If you're not an early employee, you shouldn't bear with any corporate risk, which means that you should earn your market salary, no discounts. Because of that, the equity share can't be high because you're not really taking much risk.

Some people are more aggressive taking risks then others and that's why the market works

You say "why enrich other people?". Well, everyone is enriching someone else. If you own resources so valuable that others are willing to pay lots of money for, someone will make you rich. Find a way to make yourself indispensable, as a founder, investor or employee, and someone will make you rich.

I don't think that's the right way to look at it. You doing your work isn't about just making someone else rich. It's about doing your job and hopefully doing something you enjoy or love. Building something you believe in, working with people you enjoy being around, and getting paid an amount you're happy with, among other things.

It shouldn't matter whether or not your work is making someone else richer or not. Just because you believe in a corporate environment it has less influence than a startup doesn't change the equation. You're there to do a job and paid to do just that. If you don't enjoy your work, don't feel you're getting paid what you're worth, or feel dissatisfied in any other way, find another job, start your own company, or do something that will make you happy about what you do and how much you earn.

The fact that someone is successful base on you doing your job should never be a reason to be demotivated, especially if you did the exact same job in a big company or elsewhere and don't feel the same way. It's like getting jealous over someone elses' success rather than focusing on your own success, whatever that means to you. I would suggest finding your own happiness, and pursuing that, rather than focus on things that don't matter.

> The fact that someone is successful base on you doing your job should never be a reason to be demotivated, especially if you did the exact same job in a big company or elsewhere and don't feel the same way.

In theory, what you say is correct. In practice, when you're face-to-face with these people, chatting and munching on crackers at the holiday party, and you know that you are working hard to make that guy right in front of you rich, it starts to be disconcerting.

Sometimes, even if we are OK doing job X for $Y, we can stop being OK with it if new facts emerge. There is an interesting study with monkeys (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3116678.stm) where monkeys who would otherwise be OK with completing a task if the reward was a cucumber, got angry and refused to complete the task when they saw other monkeys getting a grape (a better treat for monkeys) for the same task.

Yes, rationally, if you are happy doing job X for $Y, what others get out of your work should not matter, but sometimes our primitive brain objects.

Agreed, however, I think that just means either adjust your mindset or as I originally proposed, find what makes you happy. At the end of the day, there's no good reason to continue doing something that makes you unhappy, especially if you have options.

Even as a startup founder you are working to enrich other people: venture capitalists. VCs are able to diversify themselves by investing in multiple startups, knowing that most of them will fail, but that 1 or 2 will make the investments worth it. For the average startup founder the expected utility of founding a startup is negative dollars.

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