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Comment by duncan-donuts | Hacker News Reader

I know I’m in the minority here but I’ve never experienced this. Eye contact for me is a deeply uncomfortable thing and I’ve struggled with it my whole life. I do make eye contact with people but I almost never sustain it for more than a couple seconds. I find online meetings to be pretty engaging most of the time. No less engaging than a meeting in an office with the same amount of participation.

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I think statistically you’re not in the minority.

The two most populated countries in the world for example don’t encourage eye contact, and when you account for the large number of countries in Asia that similarly don’t, the statistical norm is to avoid eye contact.

Yeah in hindsight I’m probably not. Probably my own bias of 1) hearing from people that online communication just isn’t the same 2) my own struggle with eye contact 3) being American.

In martial arts when I was younger, we spent at least a few sessions just staring at each other, to get comfortable / less awkward with looking at your opponent.

That, along with taking punches to the stomach (We weren't very strong yet, so no worries about us actually injuring each other), just to get "used to getting hit", among other things... these kinds of training helps remove the mental blocks when you actually start to spar.

I'd say that eye-contact is just one of those things you need to train for. I know I did, it helped me a lot inside of a sparring match to help me focus on the opponent rather than feeling awkward (they're looking at me kinda thing).

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If you haven't had martial arts practice, then you could just practice eye-contact with your friends instead.

> I'd say that eye-contact is just one of those things you need to train for.

But for why and what if I'm not into martial arts? Just for social norms and studies that say only then I am really engaged and pay attention, which is definitely not true for me?

Not that you care but I straight up ask people with sunglasses to take them off if they want to talk to me. I take covering your eyes as hiding.

That sounds incredibly rude to me.

To me it's rude to have sunglasses on

People wear sunglasses for lots of reasons, many of which are none of your business. They might be vision-impaired, have glaucoma, have dilated pupils from the eye doctor, or just be really hungover.

You’re not in charge, leave people’s clothing and accessory choices alone.

Come on, buddy. People may want to wear helmets for all I care. Doesn't mean I'd super eager to talk to them

And some find staring into one's eyes and holding eye contact with strangers kind of aggressive :)

> In martial arts when I was younger, we spent at least a few sessions just staring at each other

This seems… not right.

I’m guessing your martial arts teacher was not traditionally trained, but I could be wrong.

In pretty much every sport that I have played in which I engage in some way with my opponents, it’s pretty much always best to focus on the hips, since all major/significant motion starts there.

I took karate and was instructed to look at the eyes. I'd stare into the eyes while sparring.

Didn't work well because I'd feel somewhat hypnotized by the eye contact and could never react in time to block strikes.

The blocking method was ridiculous as well but that's a separate point. Looking back I think a high percentage of that karate training was counter productive or just useless.

Useless for fighting maybe, but for socializing?

It is useful for fighting. Allows you to see what your opponent is going to do early. If you look at their hands instead e.g. you’ll see their movement well after it’s already started, and you won’t be able to react in time. That of course assumes your opponent is well trained. Amateurs’ moves are so inefficient you might as well look at the ground and you’ll still probably be able to defend yourself.

Sensei Shakira taught to do this because hips don't lie.

Though Eagles style leverages that opponent can't hide their lying eyes.

(aside: you have some very cool projects! )

Shakira is from Brazil. BJJ is from Brazil. Makes sense!

She’s from Barranquilla, which is in Colombia.

A lot of martial arts is an "after school club" activity. It could very well be not martial arts related at all but more general social training the instructors wanted from us that time around.

I dunno. Its where I learned to look people in the eyes, honest.

> Its where I learned to look people in the eyes, honest.

Oh, I totally believe you.

It’s the teacher I question.

Regardless, I’m glad you were able to take away at least one positive from your instruction.

> it’s pretty much always best to focus on the hips, since all major/significant motion starts there.

Not a martial artist, but I'm sure it starts with the intention. Whether that intention can be intuited from the glance I don't know, but wouldn't surprise me.

You’ll end up biting on feints - or worse, get hit - if you look at their eyes. A good fighter might look at your legs and begin moving as if to throw a leg kick, but throw a hook to the head instead. If you read their advertised intent and try to check the leg kick, you get knocked out by the hook.

In MMA fights / sparring, I’ve found touch is the biggest thing to understand intent. A hand on the shoulder can feel where the opponent is moving. Like a race car driver who feels the slide through their butt and corrects the slide before their eyes are telling them they’re sliding.

At least in Basketball defense all about looking at hips, eyes lie.

When training in jiu jitsu, once I make contact with my opponent I tend to close my eyes most of the time. Once you see something it's usually too late, so you need to learn to feel your opponents body, their muscles tensing, their breathing, etc...

Yep, im one of these too and find online meetings more relaxing too. When I make (forced) eye contact I lose my train of thought and often have to glance at the ceiling or out in the distance when I’m in a deep conversation. But I adapted and I am comfortable not making eye contact when I deliver a speech. I may as well be on the spectrum somewhere as I’ve always been this way. The coping mechanisms I’ve built still don’t help not disturb my train of thought when making eye contact, I have no problem with the eye contact itself but it’s just too distracting sometimes.

I have never been comfortable with direct eye contact but the funny thing is that I am often complemented on my eyes, which feels kind of weird but also makes me realize how other people can judge you in ways you wouldn't normally consider.

Do you think you connect with others effectively in conversation? I struggle the same way and really have to focus on it.

Yes. Eye contact can sometimes/often be unbearably intense. Not sure what the cure is.

Just more of it I think. It's like anything, practice it until it becomes second nature and you can even feel relaxed doing it.

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