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Comment by monero-xmr | Hacker News Reader

In any other industry, expansion and contraction are expected oscillations. Demand surges and the industry expands; demand falls and it consolidates.

For some reason we are constantly told that the proliferation of independent colleges over the last 200 years was good, and their consolidation is bad.

Every other industry responds to the market, adapts to changing technology, accepts reality. Yet colleges want to duplicate the same courses throughout thousands of schools, charge eye-popping tuition backed by non-dischargeable loans, and make us feel bad that some of them have to close. Their main product is a piece of paper - not fundamental education.

Why can’t Harvard teach the entire country? Why do we need “prestige”? The technology is here. We don’t need 3000 different schools.

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> Why can’t Harvard teach the entire country?

Harvard's selling proposal is not its quality of education, but its exclusivity in admissions. A Harvard graduate is not special because of their graduation, but because he got into Havard the first place (pre-college academic achievement here is just as good as being part of the gilded elite: They select for exceptional, not for 'good enough').

If everyone is super, no-one is. Of course that's something some people want.

>Why can’t Harvard teach the entire country?

I worked at an ivy league college and asked my boss (who now happens to run the college) why the college didn't expand since there was so much demand. He said those the college rejected could go to other schools, this college was only for the best of the best. (And of course the children of alumni donators.)

Over time I've realized that college exclusivity works exactly like image management for a pop star. You start by controlling where your image is available, sue those who use your image without permission, set up a press release outlet, create press packages. It is basically perception management. Being exclusive by rejecting most applicants and not expanding to teach more students is part of the perception management. It is a lot like the artificial scarcity of diamonds.

Online's already booming. Western Governors University -> Georgia Tech is becoming a common quick way to go from nothing to a MA in comp sci in 3 years.

These pipelines will continue developing while in person opportunities will be concentrate toward elite schools and those who don't want to rush their way to future employment. Networking etc. benefits in person are also higher.

Adding to your point, Western Governors Univ. by far granted the largest number of B.S. degrees of any institution in the U.S.

Your username suggest to me that you probably see some value in decentralization. Education, of all things, shouldn't come from a single source. Institutions having different views on what and how to teach is a feature. The resulting discourse created by that difference leads to further academic advancements that can benefit everyone.

You do make a good point about us under utilizing technology though. We should be pumping money into open courseware models as an alternative to encouraging children to start off their adult life in often irrecoverable debt.

There is a ton of value, both academic and not, in going to college but let's not be so naive as to think that we can sustain a system whereby it's worthwhile for everyone to attend a brick and mortar university. Let's give the poorest among us a great alternative using the amazing technology at our disposal, today.

> Why can’t Harvard teach the entire country?

Are you implying video courses are worthwhile at all for most students?

Harvard can't teach the entire nation because their campus cannot accommodate the entire nation. Even if they opened satellite campuses, they'd still be secondary (or at least separate from) to the real Harvard.

Ironically these claims and questions - and similar ones common in STEMish communities like HN - make for critical thought that wouldn't pass in a good professor's class. They negatively impact the discussion.

We can think, rather than invest in non-issues and rhetoric, and with hard thought we add value and improve our situation and world. We can do it.

> Their main product is a piece of paper - not fundamental education.

Critical thought is the fundamental of education.

As examples, some serious questions are: What education works best in what conditions? Our dimensions are: Locally / remotely; Interactive / one-way / other (e.g., peer discussion); Topic characteristics; Student characteristics; Teacher characteristics; duration of class; duration of term. Probably there are more, and it's a complex matrix to tease apart. Then, seeing what works, we can see apply technology.

We can also look at outcomes for individuals and for our society: How many benefit from colleges as is? What if we changed teaching? What value does college provide, economically, socially, etc.?

>Critical thought is the fundamental of education.

I haven't seen any school that explicitly and effectively teaches critical thought. Many seem rather offended by it. As to your main point, I wonder if you've heard of Brian Caplan's "The Case Against Education"? In it, he (a Ph.D professor of Economics) ruthlessly analyzes exactly what you mention in the end, examining the actual provided value of higher education and concludes that for both the individual and society, it's rather shockingly overvalued. If you want a very data-driven analysis of the question of the current value of higher education, I haven't seen a better one.

We could have some backups, say, 9 universities max. Depend on how we design the system. For example, is major based a right approach? Are Engineering university, Medical university optimal, resource wise? A lot to think about the economy of education.

Imagine Indian math vs Chinese math school of thought.

Status signalling

Most people don't need it. Look at sports. Why do top athletes have their own personal coaches, fitness trainers, nutritionists, psychologists, data analysts etc?

I don't quite understand the point you're making. Most people don't need what? A Harvard education, prestige, or a college education in general? What do "top athletes" demonstrate in support of your point?

Not being snarky. Just trying to understand :)

The answer to that is the answer to the question I asked. Why do top athletes have so many domain experts around them?

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