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Comment by nonrandomstring | Hacker News Reader

The question is not now much time you spend at a screen, but who is on the other side of it.

Much of the conversation so far concerns time, and the virtues or vices of how we spend it. Not all pastimes are equal. Knitting a jumper, taking a hike, or skateboarding are actions one performs on or in the world. Reading a book is more of an action that the world (the author especially) performs upon you. It is a different frame. Movies and video gaming are somewhere in the middle. Some media forms, such as daytime trash-TV and TiKTok are at the extreme of the passive/receptive frame. It is a pipeline of affect directly to your hypothalamus. Any discussion of harms or benefits must be understood in that light.

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I've thought a lot about my hobbies as consumption vs. creation. For me, the more time I spend creating things and changing/improving the world around me (or myself, or my relationships), the happier I am. And the more time I spend passively consuming things that others have created, the less happy I am.

> Movies and video gaming are somewhere in the middle.

I get how video games are something in the middle: because they're an interactive medium, they require a bit of thought and action from the engager, but that person's actions are neither creating nor changing anything in the actual world.

I don't get why you consider movies in the middle, however. I would rate movies as even more passive than books. When I'm reading a book, I can control the pace, I can stop and think about something for a moment, I can refer back an earlier passage, I can look up something in the dictionary, etc. Fiction novels force me to use my imagination to visualize scenes, and model the mental states of others as I'm reading their internal monologues.

But a film is something that just washes over you. I love them dearly, but I don't understand how they couldn't be seen as anything other than passive consumption.

True with one caveat - despite being a passive experience, your choices of media are still limited and therefore the way you pick and choose and explore what you consume is still an active form of skill you develop. Watching things that pique your interests, especially in niches without that many viewers, gives a sense of your experience being valuable and interesting - and crucially, something to talk about and share. It becomes fuel for writing and philosophizing, and a great conversation piece to navigate complex issues with friends and family. e.g. Someone may get just as much joy and sense of accomplishment from sharing their obsession with Quentin Tarantino movies as they would from their oil paintings. (Even though both are in a sense unlikely to matter much in any economic or social sense beyond - does it make you happy)

Personally I think just "do what's interesting to you" is a good rule, and I think it can navigate the transition between filling up on passive entertainment (e.g. playing every factory/crafting-themed video game) and actively building (e.g. making your own game!). Sometimes you just need to load up on what's been done already in a genre, and sometimes you just need to say "fuck it" and start making something without being intimidated.

In what way is watching a movie more "active" than reading a book?

I don't support the argument necessarily, but a movie is (can) be a collective experience witnessed simultaneously with others.

Books, as fantastic as they are in all regards, do not offer that trait.

True - watching a comedy movie with close friends in your living room is quite different than watching a drama by yourself.

Some music is for contemplation, other music is for dancing.

I suppose the media format isn't what determines whether the work is an active or passive experience. And the more I think about it, the more I think passive experiences can be greatly valuable.

It's just that a life comprised entirely of passive consumption is destined to be unfulfilling, and doubly so if you're consuming the low-quality, low-effort, junk food type stuff.

Book clubs

Secondary reactions; you're not reading aloud in a group of people but comparing experiences. Films/tv offer a firsthand initial experience; there is no denyinghe presentation but the time to internalize and process is limited in the 2d format, as opposed to written.

Reading can be a communal and simultaneous activity. Through most of history people (well, at least I know about Europe) did not read silently.

And Reading aloud clubs exist too. Really fun actually!

You can read a book aloud to another person, as parents do of course with their children but what sometimes couples do with each other.

Or how NOT to spend it.

Before the smartphone, a significant amount of time per day was spent on nothing. Could be staring out the window during a commute, an actual break at work, waiting for somebody or something.

We mostly lost that. Zero rest for our brains, it's bombarded with information relentlessly.

It's Monday, and a school holiday. It rained in the morning, but now it's just cold and overcast. It's quiet in the living room. You know the phone isn't going to ring, because who would call? You could walk to the library or a used bookstore. You could go to the 7-Eleven around the corner if you had any money, which you don't, and you haven't had for some time. You could walk the river path again. There's a TV, but it's only got 2.5 channels, and you don't like to watch Donahue or Days of Our Lives. You can hear the clock ticking, and each grain of dust falling to the floor.

Poetry from simpler times, which I'm glad I experienced.

Where is this from?

My memories of the late 80s and early 90s.

They will make a game where you do that now.

My great grandma played solitaire to while the hours away. With actual cards.

Not sure if that's a case for or against screen time.

Indeed. It sounds soul-crushingly boring to me. She worked in a sweatshop, back when that was legal in the US. She couldn't afford the entertainment that's been available to me for my entire life. Used paperbacks were always affordable, even on my preteen allowance; it wasn't until adulthood that I learned that I was taking my comparative wealth for granted. When she could afford yarn or string, she'd crochet or tat... but she claimed to actually enjoy the solitaire. To me, it seems to be a monastic, meditative passtime. There's virtue in enjoying simple pleasures... but I'd probably lose it.

My grandma cheated at solitaire.

I did too if I was losing.

I’ve started taking saunas every day as part of my gym routine. It’s been a nice side effect that for at least 15 minutes a weekday I am not reading, watching, or listening to anything. I believe it’s a big part of why I’ve felt more refreshed after exercising of late.

People had radios in the background (at work, at home) for that.

I’ve been pondering a bit in this area, especially around things that are addictive harmful. It seems like things that give a pleasure reward for little or no work, and aren’t furthering relationships, are dangerous. They sap motivations (no need to work hard when your feel-good choice is so close). This seems to cover social media/doom-scrolling, porn, drugs and alcohol (at various levels and circumstances), easy hookups(?), constant TV, etc. Still working on the idea…

These aren't all inherently bad things when consumed in moderation, and over the course of a lifetime. Sometimes we just need those quick hits of artificially-induced dopamine to give us the drive to push through the responsibilities and pressures of adult life.

The problem isn't that the content is itself dangerous, it's that it's being mainlined by [adults and children alike]. Absolutely nothing in life is safe to consume this way-- the sort of drugs that otherwise provide these effects are classified as class-II controlled substances.

Ponder this modern classic, something I throw at everyone who will listen: https://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comic/supernormal-stimuli/

Geek - obsessive consumer

Nerd - obsessive creator

I must have heard this somewhere but I can’t recall where. In any event, I think most of us are a bit of both but personally I strive to be more of the latter.

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