Transferring Gripen fighters to Ukraine as soon as possible | Hacker News Reader

Transferring Gripen fighters to Ukraine as soon as possible

aviacionline.com

19 pointsTozen19 comments

From the article:

> The Swedish Saab Gripen C/D [...] was designed from the outset for ease of maintenance, and can be refuelled, re-armed and given basic maintenance by teams of just six ground crew using two vehicles on small airbases or highways, even in the harsh conditions of the northern winter. Moreover, only one of each crew needs to be a highly trained maintainer; the rest can be conscripts or even troops.

If this is true and the Gripen can achieve performances similar to other western fighter jets, I'm really wondering why maintenance of other planes is so much more complicated and costly or why the Gripen is not selling much better than it currently is.

Such deals are always made with the seller in mind. You don't only get a plane, but warm, on-going and close relations with the origin country.

This doesn't have any stealth. That greatly reduces cost, but it also means it must stay out of range of enemy aircraft and anti-aircraft weapons.

Stealth is overrated in this theater:

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-built-a-russian-fight...

It's not as if Sweden has a bunch of unused fighters just sitting around to be donated. The ones we have are needed for our own defense.

That defence may (for once) best be waged abroad, in the Ukraine.

Every Russian military asset defeated there is one threat removed.

That is an argument, but it has to be weighed against the cost of re-acquiring the planes that will either be lost or on permanent loan to Ukraine after the war is over. A defeated Russia can still strike back with isolated terror attacks and a Bear with a nuke is a good way to effect those.

Sweden has come a very long way in regards to international security operations since the war began, but there are still Putin-lovers who'd love nothing more than to turn public opinion against Ukraine. Asking Swedes to give up the "crown jewels" of our defense is one way.

I agree it's a hard sell.

I have to say though, the cost of re-acquiring the planes is not a simple thing to evaluate, at least if you think strategically what is best for the country.

The cash cost is irrelevant compared to the cost to society if we actually had to use them. I guess what I'm trying to say is, using them now has a known, huge cost. Not using them, can have a much higher cost later on.

But if we are disregarding what is feasible, and just playing RISK, Sweden should just send its own figher pilots and planes to the Ukraine, right now. It wouldn't be a NATO attack, and what is Russia going to do? Bleed on us? It's either that or nukes, but they always threaten with nukes for everything. I see no signs the Kremlin wants to be martyred themselves, just send others that way.

Look at the map. Who is going to attack you at this very moment? This is same argument germans kept using about heavy weapons.

Romania has a fleet of heavily upgraded MIG 21s that would also fit the bill. Once they get the F16s they bought, they will no longer have a use for them.

EDIT: add link

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/romania-should-give-th...

You are referring to the "LanceR" MIG 21s upgraded in Israel I guess. Built in the 60s (actually until the 80s, but by then I guess they were badly outdated), upgraded in the 90s - I'm not sure how I would feel if I was an Ukrainian pilot ordered to fly into combat on such a plane...

When the US and India did joint exercises, the US F15 drivers were quite surprised at the capabilities of the MIG 21s.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/25274/f-15s-arrive-for...

You could still defend returning fighters / bombers. The missiles on the MIG21 could still be decent if allowed to carry them. Ukraine alreday used western anti-radation missiles successfully on their MIGs.

Slovakia is going to receive F-16s in 2024 the earliest, but we have transferred our MiGs to Ukraine already, after signing an agreement where Poland and Czech Republic committed to protect our skies in the mean time. Thanks!

Those upgraded MIGs use technology provided by Elbit Systems which means that Israel can oppose such a transfer. Anyway, the planes are really old and set to be decomissioned in a couple of years, so it could be pointless to train new (Ukrainian) pilots to fly them.

MiG 21s are not only one of the shittiest fighters ever built, they're significantly older (and far worse) than anything Ukraine currently operates...

Ukraine is currently using 4th generation fighters (Su-27 and MiG-29) that were both upgraded in the 2010's and are more akin to 4.5 generation... The F-16 isn't even an upgrade per se, they're just numerous and Ukraine only has so many fighters left...

Fighters are a defensive weapon for Ukraine . The Russians had no issues with transferring jets to our enemies in the past. I don't understand why we didn't start doing this (or F16s or F18s) months ago.

Actually what would help more would be anti-missile systems (Patriot, Iron Dome etc.). But the sad fact is that there's not enough of those to go around - Israel needs all the production capacity for itself for obvious reasons, and the U.S. apparently don't even have enough Patriot missiles for their own needs.

They should send patriots anyway. Most of these weapons were made with the intention of stopping Russians.

There will never be a cheaper opportunity to put Russia out of commission.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com