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Comment by smoldesu | Hacker News Reader

> then just obviously don't use Apple services

How is this possible on iPhone/iPads, where using Apple services like the App Store is required to install software?

Starting in May next year, the Digital Markets Act [1] requires Apple to "allow the installation of third-party software applications [...] by means other than the relevant core platform services of that gatekeeper."

[1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%...

Very excited for this, but also disappointed that it took the entire European Union to bring Apple to heel.

I'm still on the fence about whether this will end up being a net good or not but people don't seem to consider the potential knock on effects of this. Apple puts some nice pro-consumer, along with some less nice anti-developer, requirements on Apps in the AppStore. Easy subscription management, privacy disclosure, parental controls etc. If the developers of an app decide to only make it available outside the AppStore you as a consumer may be forced to choose between using that app and getting those benefits.

> If the developers of an app decide to only make it available outside the AppStore you as a consumer may be forced to choose between using that app and getting those benefits.

And Apple already chooses the reverse for you by not allowing apps you may want and by charging at 30% tax for doing so. There is a vast disparity between the behaviors!

Obviously, it is not possible on Apple devices. Probably something like Pinephone [0] might help.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PinePhone

How does the PinePhone help me download apps on my iPhone?

It won't help to download apps on an iPhone, which, I must say, isn't even yours: you don't get to decide which apps you can install on your phone. Apple gets to decide. Factually speaking you're merely renting the iPhonefrom Apple, which, being the device owner, decides the terms under which you can use it.

In practice this distinction is meaningless. In fact I trust Apple more than my own government. To take your argument to an absurd logical conclusion, I don’t own ANYTHING because my government can take it.

In rule of law countries there is a legal framework for the government taking things which involves processes that are generally voted on.

We cannot say the same for Apple.

Laws voted on by elected officials like Ted Cruz, MTG, Boebert. I trust Tim Cook over any of those.

Never heard of Civil Forfeiture, eh?

Ya, and amazingly enough it's a written law.

It is known that Apple would do quite a lot of what governments will ask of it. It removes app from national AppStores on a simple request from countries like China or Russia. (Well, now Apple might ignore Russian takedown requests, but prior to the war with Ukraine they were very receptive to their demands)

This is why side-loading and the option for alternative app stores is so crucial. If Apple bans Signal or other E2EE messenger apps from your national app store, you can't get them. Full stop.

If people in China and other privacy-hostile countries can side-load from alternative app stores (like F-droid for Android), the government/Apple doesn't control user access to particular undesireable apps.

There's obviously reverse concerns to this side of the coin but the overall concept has arguably always existed eith jailbreaking (Cydia store, AltStore(?)) and I haven't heard any stories about people becoming massively compromised in the way all the naysayers and Apple would have us believe.

Don't buy an iPhone.

Or just wait long enough for the EU's digital markets act to take effect. But my point stands.

I can’t wait for the mandated pop ups “did you know you could install a third party App Store” every time you go to the Apple App Store.

What makes you think there will be such "mandated popups"?

Have you heard of the GDPR and seen how it’s made the web browsing experience worse?

Yes, I have heard of the GDPR and in my opinion it has improved/consolidated my digital privacy rights and not affected the "web browsing experience" in any negative way. I believe you are referring to the ePrivacy Directive (aka cookie law). As you may know, it's only mandatory to inform the user when the website is collecting information from the user beyond what is necessary for technical purposes - and in that case I do want the option to refuse that.

EU browser ballot. Cookie consent nags.

Maybe buy a product that better suits you. If you buy a barbie doll, don't expect to be able to transform it into an 18 wheeler big rig.

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