> "Name one practical reason to pay amounts higher than 1.000€ in cash."
it's 10.000 euros, you're off by an order of magnitude.
Can you name one practical reason to pay more than 10k cash?
it's 10.000 euros, you're off by an order of magnitude.
Can you name one practical reason to pay more than 10k cash?
Have you ever bought a used car? Or played relatively high limit at a casino?
It’s perfectly normal to take 6 figures cash to a casino if you’re playing high stakes poker, for example.
And there are plenty of other reasons.
A cashiers check costs what? 10, 20 euros?
And we’re talking about how it can impact real people here, not the 0.1% who gamble 10 years’ minimum wage at the casino in one evening
Virtually nobody in Europe uses checks (in my country they are explicitly banned as a tender). It’s either cash or a bank transfer, and for such purchases, most people really prefer cash.
> And we’re talking about how it can impact real people here, not the 0.1% who gamble 10 years’ minimum wage at the casino in one evening
Most professional poker players are staked. They aren’t gambling with their money. It’s a job. A high risk, high reward job, but still a job. And it was just an example, and a perfectly valid at that.
And for pro poker players, they can just wire the money to the casino
Honestly I don’t see any moment in my life in a developed economy where I or anyone around me has needed more than a few hundred in cash
Yes. Virtually nobody uses them in Europe.
Mostly coz many banks take % cut on big money tranfers so taking it out and just giving it to someone in a bag is sometimes tens of thousands cheaper
In most of the EU, buying land and houses is done through a notary services. Depending on the country, you either do a SEPA transfer directly to the notary, and they then send it to the other party. Or, in other countries, you do the SEPA transfer to the other party, and then the notary approves the ownership-transfer once both parties confirm the money-transfer is complete.
Estate ownership is not proved by a piece of paper like with American "titles", they're backed with government-kept records, which only a notary can change. (and that's what you pay them for, in addition to taxes)
Nothing is happening in cash, because many EU governments want to be able to follow the money used to buy estate. Notaries usually report the transfer to the tax authorities. If the money cannot be justified, the notary must cancel the transaction, and some financial investigators will follow up.
There are no fees, as opposed to what many other HN commenters says. Because if your bank has fees for SEPA transfers, you can always switch to virtual-cross-EU-online banks which have no fees for SEPA transfers.
However, you will be notary fees, which most of it is just plain tax.
Yes, notary was involved and it would be invalid if buyer didn't paid, but it was very much a bundle of cash getting exchanged.
A notary signing an agreement between a buyer and a seller is a legitimate reason to spend all that money in cash.
Which is very rare though, I only know old cow farmers in little towns close to the mountains here that deal with much cash (for lack of near bank offices and their lack of a driving license)
So someone might officially pay 20.000€ for a piece of land, pay the taxes and fees based on that price, but pay the remaining 60.000€ in cash.
Obviously this is illegal, but the notaries are in on it.
Two examples from my European Country, where the practice is spread and people believe they are smart but are really not.
---
a lot of people did it here, especially in the 80s-90s. Then we started building high speed 4 lanes highways and high speed trains. You know how much the State paid for the land used to build those infrastructures?
EXACTLY!
The nominal values, so basically people got compensated for a tenth of the actual price.
The State also explained publicly that most of the land in straight flat paths, was chosen using their market value. If it's worthless, nobody will protest, on the contrary, they will be happy that someone is buying it for a price.
Some of these people were so stupid that sued the State. Of course the State won and also discovered the fraud, collecting even more money in the form of fines.
---
Recently a campaign of subsidies to improve energy efficiency of buildings was launched. The benefits are up to 110% of the total costs. Yep, 110%.
So my parents, who always did everything by the book, and got called foolish by their neighbors for years, got for free a 45k photovoltaic system and the renewal of the shed, while most of the requests were rejected because various irregularities were in place. Which again did the government a tool to investigate who committed a fraud in the past and fine them.
---
Personal advice: unless you're Bezos level rich, don't try to outmsart the government. Chances are your children will have to pay for your assholeness.
so you would buy a house in cash?
How much will the personal protection cost?
I don't think I would accept to sell my house to soneone who pretends to pay cash, I wouldn't want to deal with that much money and all the risks involved, including the fact that there's no guarantees that the money is actually not fake.
Besides, money transfer is so cheap that it hasn't been an issue since at least 30 years ago.
We are taking about Europe here.
If you knew someone who buys houses in cash, can you swear your first question would not be "where did that much money in cash comes from?"
So he is.
But then again, what's the practical reason to pay more than 1k cash?
If they can freeze your money in the bank, they can also freeze the cash you keep stashed in your room.
paranoia is stupid.
I am all in favour for protester not living tracks, it doesn't involve money transactions over 10k in cash though. I don't see how the two things relate.
Just that.
If the bank knows, the government does.
It makes sense: if I buy a motorbike from you using cash and nobody knows about it, when I am going to rob a bank with it, the police would come knocking at your door. Would you like that just to let me use cash instead of any other system available because we are normal people that live in societies not in a lawless imaginary city in a western movie (west was not lawless, properties where already registered 4 thousands years ago by Egyptians, it's nothing new)
Simpler yet, if the police stops you and there isn't your name on the certificate of ownership , you have to justify why is that.
Again, it makes complete sense. It could have been stolen and you could be the thief.
A washing machine costs 250 euros, you can pay it in cash.
The limit is 10k, it's 40 washing machines.
The washing machine comes with a warranty, warranty is valid only if you put your name on it.
Only a fool would renounce to 2 years warranty to pay cash and not let the government know that they do laundry, like literally everybody else, I'm quite sure the government doesn't care if you own a washing machine, but then again I live in Europe, probably the CIA does and it's a big deal there.
I really don't understand how people feel comfortable going around with thousands of euros in cash in their pockets to buy stuff that they could have comfortably and safely bought from their couch using a free and immediate bank transfer that guarantees both parties against fraud, and theft and that have no handling costs.
American paranoia about government will be the worst heritage of these last two decades.
But probably even worse is the idea that your freedom means I have to pay the price for it.
Wanna pay a house or a car in cash, without any record of the transaction?
Go buy it from a criminal, because I am not selling it to you. Nobody would. Unless they are being paid to accept all that cash in one transaction.
High end electronic equipment, for example.
Or do you by personal devices linking them to your name?
Do you really believe you are anonymous?
SIM cards are not, for example, since forever here in Europe.
warranty certificates must contain all your personal data to be valid.
You would renounce to free 2 years warranty only to pay cash?
Why?
what's the deal with that laptop, what's the reason to keep it secret?
Suddenly your secrecy it's much more interesting for the shop owner than you paying with a bank transfer or credit card like any other person would do and not raise any suspicion.
If I was them I would alert someone, in case you'd do something illegal with it, just to be on the safe side.
See? even if you are a criminal using cash just for the sake of using cash it's stupid.
Most shops don't even accept large amount of money in cash, it's dangerous for them and costs them a lot more to handle and keep safe.
even many bank offices or postal office don't keep cash to avoid being robbed. It's for employees safety.
It is hoped that nobody is so stupid to try that.
> Do you really believe you are anonymous?
I radically believe on that right of so being.
> You would renounce to free 2 years warranty only to pay cash?
Very certainly.
> Why?
Because that is what a Man does.
> what's the reason to keep it secret
Basicmost principle.
> interesting
Monkeys surely are intrigued when they see men acting: they cannot understand. If they had been part of a Civilization, they would know that a Man does not concede on the side of privacy.
> even if you are a criminal
Very obvious, it is expected that criminals be on FB and Tw and smile at Sino-Thatcherian cameras etc.
Nothing new, it is part of the scheme: criminals have something to hide; Men have everything to hide; subjects have nothing to hide.
There are people that believe in a magical being with long blonde hair that died and resurrected 3 days later.
That doesn't make it real.
I know a few people that cannot be tracked by the usual means, you would never survive living their life.
> Basicmost principle.
I'm sure police will understand when they stop you with 15k euros in your backpack and no justification for it.
> Monkeys surely are intrigued when they see men acting
No, they are not.
Privacy is closing the door when you go to the bathroom, what you are talking about is secrecy.
Which is why the CIA is called a secret service and not a privacy service.
To commit crimes unpunished, you need secrecy.
Interestingly, monkeys do understand that, some people don't.
> Very obvious, it is expected that criminals be on FB and Tw and smile at Sino-Thatcherian cameras etc.
It's exactly what they do. One of them bought Twitter. Another was best friend and producer of all the Hollywood celebrities. Another one won the presidential elections in the United States of A.
Reality beats fiction every time.
for more than 10k?
if someone has 10k cash they will not buy a used car, they will buy a new car, pay it in the next 5 years 200 euros a month and then sell it to a used car reseller.
No sane minded person would sell their more than 10k worth car in cash to an unknown party who shows up with a bag full of 50 euros bills.
BTW this position comes from people who regularly see cash as a form of freedom from oppression and support the use of crypto, which is digital assets that cannot be bought in cash.
So the options are logically 2: it's people that are not right in their mind or it's people who love cash because they don't pay taxes.
10k in cash is an unreasonable amount of money for 99.999% of the population.
I am an investor in my country in bars and restaurants and we're so happy that younger generations virtually use zero cash.
It freed me and my employees from having to deal with cash, bank deposits, handling and transferring money safely, theft, counterfeit money and many many other issues that the stone age money brings.
It also made it much easier to handle payments, I can tell the bank to pay and they will, instantaneously, while before we obviously used the money from the cash register to pay, to spend the cash money and avoid going to the bank to deposit it and had to trust the delivery guy, who changed frequently, to actually not steal the money and disappear (it happened several times over the past 25 years).
It made possible for young people, especially girls, to go around safely with no money on them and still live a full life while also keeping much more control on their expenses.
So cash it is.
Used cars go for way more than 10k. I bought my current car for 35k used. If you go to used car dealer, the average price is nowhere near 10k.
For small amounts? maybe.
Assuming you like bringing money with you and your time is free and you like to pay two times: the first time when you pay in cash, the second time when you have to waste time to get the money from an ATM.
There are much better ways to solve these issues and I use cash only with people I already know, other than to pay drinks and cigarettes.
For large amounts?
Absolutely not.
Unless the transaction is between two people with something to hide, of course.
Ironically, this is why Europe wanted to put a limit on cash transactions [1]
They probably know their chickens
[1] https://newsrebeat.com/world-news/124305.html
> Used cars go for way more than 10k
So what?
There's absolutely no obligation to pay in one transaction.
Even with raising interest rates, it's still more convenient to lend the money from the bank and pay monthly, instead of giving away 10k that could be invested in something much more profitable than a used car.
You can easily repay the loan in 5 years with < 200 euro/month even at rates around 5-6%.
> I bought my current car for 35k used.
That's a very expensive car and this [2] is 35k euros cash.
Not exactly "the best way" to pay. Honestly someone who pays a car with 35k cash, can only look like this in my mind [3]
This how I actually do it [4], paying monthly rates, very cheap interests, thanks, but no thanks.
[2] https://storage.ecodibergamo.it/media/photologue/2018/4/5/ph...
[3] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-J_rU5T5QbA/maxresdefault.jpg
[4] https://sg.lendela.com/assets/img/blog-you-can-t-pay-credit-...