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Comment by joenathanone | Hacker News Reader

I was considering purchasing a Lighting if even as just a battery for my home, it was a really great value compared to buying a powerwall, plus you get a pickup truck!

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Can't wait until a company makes a 7-8 seat minivan with the Lightning's two-way battery function. The ultimate consumer utility for moving people, cargo, and electrons.

There's an E-Transit coming out, not a 'mini'van of course but presumably there'll be a e-transit connect sooner than later.

I'm intrigued by the CANOO whenever they start making a consumer vehicle.

Closest so far is the plug-in Pacifica hybrid, which is really annoying - I'd love an all-electric minivan, or even a plug-in Sienna.

> it was a really great value compared to buying a powerwall,

Is there an explanation for this? (I can't think of one). Why would embedding a battery in a vehicle be a better "value" than a battery permanently installed?

And don't you need to install some protective devices (for the grid) into your electric panel if using a F150 battery to power your home wiring? Is that cost included in the calculation?

Regulatory credits are a huge subsidy for EV cars.

I think they're saying that the cost of a power wall and the F150 were basically the same, and would do the same for what they needed a power wall for and the F150 also happened to be a truck.

It's like the situations where the cost of adding a shed to your property is so high (permits, etc) that it's cheaper to buy a box truck and park it in your driveway forever. It's a shed, that has wheels and can move!

> I think they're saying that the cost of a power wall and the F150 were basically the same,

A pair of Power Walls costs about $25K. Surely a Lightning is more than that?

A powerwall is only 13.5 kW-h. Less capacity than my Chevy Volt.

A F150 is minimum 98kW-h.

Powerwall gets a 30% federal tax credit (plus possible local, state, or utility rebates). Also in certain circumstances receives revenue share per kwh provided when called upon for grid support in Virtual Power Plant (VPP) arrangements. Vehicles receive a lesser EV subsidy ($7500 or roughly 15% assuming $50k purchase price).

I mean, sure? I'll take your word for it, I'm not in the United States so this is of no relevance to me.

Just throw main breaker off and wait out the power outtage. When it comes back on, disconnect the truck, flip main back on, and then drive your battery to help you get a latte from starbucks.

Energy utilities dislike this due to the potential for homeowners to electrocute their workers.

You must install Ford's "home integration system" that costs $4k to use the truck as home power backup. It's a transfer switch, small battery to power it, etc.

Powerwalls are $11k before installation and have 13.5 kWh capacity.

Lighting truck is let's call it $90k with 131 kWh capacity.

By pure capacity/$ perspective, the truck is the better deal -- plus, if you look at it that way, you get a free truck.

I appreciate the replies. Still wondering why this could be -- what is it about the truck battery that makes it cheaper? Or are powerwalls simply over-priced?

Powerwalls are both a niche and premium product, provided by basically one company, EVs are neither.

There are probably more companies making powerwall type products than there are car companies. For example, emergency power generation companies like Generac have them, there's an ecosystem of companies competing with Jackery that are attacking it from the bottom (ecoflow, bluetti, etc), a lot of solar and solar-adjacent companies have one (enphase, myenergi, etc).

I doubt what you said is true but irrespective, number of companies != size of market, and the companies you mention serve different markets/functions, so a consumer product company also != an EV company. It is relatively easy to design/build/sell a functional powerwall or generator equivalent, but one person cannot get into the market with an EV.

Your last statement is the reason why mine is true. I'm not trying to imply that the average powerwall company is comparable to an EV company.

Then isn’t it also the reason why your statement isn’t relevant to the point I was making?

Your original statement was "Powerwalls are both a niche and premium product, provided by basically one company, "

Tesla has a very small fraction of this market. Most of the market is outside the US, and Tesla basically only operates in the US for power walls.

Powerwalls aren't a business' core product, so they're priced at "how much to make it worth our time".

Powerwall should still benefit from the economies of scale being put into Tesla cars and their battery plants. It’s a fair question why a truck would still be competitive.

but again, they don't actually want to sell powerwalls, they want to sell cars, they're just willing to sell powerwalls.

There are a bunch of companies selling powerall type stuff as their core product. Ecoflow, Bluetti, etc.

Powerwall and Tesla's solar offerings have always been terrible value, so it's not exactly like it's a high bar to clear.

I’m amazed they don’t have a commercial of the F-150 powering a home.

The closest I've seen is a youtube commercial of them being used to power a movie set in a remote location.

There was this one (skip to 36 seconds):

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/OKad/ford-f-150-lightning-the-only-e...

Amazing, how can you not want a truck, imagine rolling up to your significant other's house and saving them from a power outage with your awesome truck. It's like being a light-bringer.

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