Warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine (2016)
businessinsider.com
businessinsider.com
My understanding about warming up an engine before putting load on it had nothing to do with fuel or power steering fluid, it was about thermal expansion of all the machined parts that suffer wear if they are run under load while they are loose-fitting from being cold. This is a thing even in summer and merely worse in winter.
This article barely talks about this and doesn't say anything intelligible but just says "stress" from stepping on it right away.
Maybe that issue also no longer exists on modern engines, but nothing in this article explains that.
Mostly everything this says about why idling is supposedly bad, applies to operating the thing at all, idling or not. The conclusion would be "don't use your car at all in winter"
Well, if you're going to use it at all, then you're already doing the damage, so you might as well be comfortable and have an easier time clearing the windows. The device only exists in the first place to serve you.
The only risk described here applies to prolonged idling only and is a long term risk mitigated by reasonable elwarmuo and oil changes. The short term risk is the rotating assembly and value train is far more immediate.
Fuel injection has convinced people that they can just jump in a cold car, fire it up and be fine. Doing so, especially in extreme cold is just incredibly damaging.
When an engine idles (with no load), it produces relatively little heat. Comparatively, an engine running faster, under load produces much more heat. The engine will warm up more quickly and less evenly when loaded, likely leading to thermal stress, and possible mismatched thermal expansion. On the other hand, modern lubricants are very good at handling different temperatures.
The other thing to consider is that the engine is only one part of the vehicle, and various other components of the drivetrain may actually suffer more thermal stress from the idling than from immediate driving.
I think this is the key difference between now and what used to be.
Also suspect modern engines are more carefully designed to handle thermal expansion.
There's a pretty good description here: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/779/journal-bearin...
These engines are often large enough to park a car inside, however.
Once the oil temp starts to get above 150F it very quickly gets to the operating temp (220F), so I view that as the point that it's okay to go above 3000 RPM.
If there are oil heaters then they must be far away from the oil reservoir temperature sensor and only have a local effect. As you say, that sounds like a feature for very large engines. It's probably a good practice to be gentle to car engines with cold oil.
https://store.ngpracing.com/acm-oil-cooler-heat-exchanger-1-...
They are almost exclusively air/oil-cooled, low-rpm engines, and a majority of them have designs dating back 50+ years.
it seems very unlikely that modern refinements have completely reversed the concerns.
For a water cooled engine, there is a water passage around 3/16” from the cylinder wall which helps to bring the cylinder up to an even temperature more quickly and prevents a high heat flux from expanding the piston to the point where it can scuff the walls.
It’s not only oil pressure that is a concern for a cold-start to operating temps.
I know one of the engineers that worked at the car design and when questioned, he explained (going off memory here) that people used to warm the engine, then started driving normally, and while the engine is hot, the trasmission and differentials aren't, but you don't have a good way of warming them up while standing still, so drive off slowly and carefully without asking full torque from your engine, and it will help warm the whole thing.
Basically, drive like a grandma for ~10-20 minutes before even moderately giving it the business.
The flip side of this is that, especially if you’ve got direct port fuel injection, you’ll actually want to give it the business on occasion (once properly warmed up) for best operation, as the detergent from an increased fuel spray can help to break up carbon buildup on the top of your pistons. Either way you’ll likely want to book in carbon cleanup as a periodic maintenance item.
So all that's reasonable is simply to be aware of the ideals, and by inference the anti-ideals, and let them guide whatever freedom you do have, while just using the thing however you need to.
If you need to actually use your laptop on batteries freque tly, then go ahead and allow it to charge to 100% instead of limiting it to 50% to 80%. If you live somewhere cold and need to use a device in the cold, well then you just go ahead and use it outside of the ideal temperature range.
But the knowledge is still useful because there are still plenty of times where you could do any number of things and don't much care which since they're all equal effort, but they aren't all equally good for your equipment, and all else being equal, you would be just as happy to adopt a habit that gives x extra years of lufe than one that removes x years of life, if you simply knew about it.
Like, you don't really care that much where in your house you plop some device when you're not using it for weeks at a time, but a shelf in a covered cabinet is better than a table in direct sunlight, is better than sitting directly on top of a steam radiator.
Your work commute precludes the absolute ideal, but within your limits there is still a lot of opportunity to do things more vs less optimally. You might intentionally take local roads to the next exit, or for merely 10 miles even the whole way.
Or just don't even worry about it at all because diffs and trannies are really not what die first or most, and trannies do warm up some just from the torque converter pumping and the radiator loop.
And manuals just aren't a problem no matter what. They may shift harder but they aren't being hurt much. In any climate that even has cold, everything else will rust to junk before a manual tranny even needs a new clutch let alone any kind of actual wear to the gears or synchros.
FYI
And I agree with your last point, it was the other thing that was bothering me by it. What exactly is actionable here, to me it's just normal wear and tear.
I don't really need my engine to last 400k miles like it can in perfect circumstances.
I need fog free windows, be comfortable driving the car without gloves on making the steering slip. To be able to focus on getting around and not shivering.
I don't drive these days but back when I did those were all issues I had for my 5am start getting to work. And far more a concern to me than the engine losing some longevity (which I could make up for just by proper care few people do anyways).
Personally I can't drive with ice on my windows. Can't really see outside and I'm pretty confident that's illegal. Like 80%, but I'm not a lawyer.
[1] I totally want to be That Guy
This is not a significant concern, frankly.
If the car is plugged in– even to a typical 120V wall plug– it’ll charge and warm the battery even in single digit temps.
I’m not worried about maintenance because that is a fact of life. For Tesla’s too (mostly defects).
If your car breaks down shortly after you start driving it and the cabin is ice cold you’re in trouble. At least in a rural area.
Of course anyone driving in freezing areas should have winter survival gear but who actually does?
You might want to look into a remote starter accessory. I had it in my last vehicle to start the AC (I live in a warm climate).
1. To save as much money as possible. Meaning to make my car last as long as possible, postponing the need for repairs or a new car as long as possible
2. To reduce energy usage as much as possible. Not only to save money but also because it's good for the environment.
Which means I do exactly the opposite of yours. I'll to go great lengths to avoid turning on the car's heater. So I put on thicker clothes, I dry foggy windows with a towel, within the city I drive electric as much as possible (I have a hybrid), etc. I brake as little and as smoothly as possible to avoid kinectic energy being lost to braking (or if I do need to brake, at least have renegerative breaking recover 60%). All of this much to the chagrin of my wife who doesn't value such things at all. Or the guy behind me who's annoyed at the fact that I stop maintaining speed 100 meters away from the red light, instead of maintaining speed until 20 meters away and then braking in 2s.
I have the feeling that people like me are rare. It seems that when it comes to cars, nobody around me cares about saving money or saving the environment, they mainly care about comfort.
You know, heat is a byproduct of the combustion process…
—edit—
And these people who won’t turn on the AC to save gas end up messing up the aerodynamics and making the vehicle less efficient while also suffering.
I'll turn on the heater once I'm on the highway, not before.
(I'm not aware of how your hybrid is programmed, it may or may not turn the engine on sooner if the heat is on.)
Letting off the gas 100 meters before a stop light and coast that will save gas, but of course it won't be more efficient to brake for the 100 meters before a stop sign, except for regen, as you mention. And is indeed obnoxious for other drivers if you are braking way before a sign.
Hypermiling is a good idea, but it's a trap to to slip into an orthorexia-type mindset about efficiency - imbuing virtue into deprivation. Going to "great lengths" to not turn on your car's heater, in addition to being 100% pointless if your ICE engine is running, is an asshole move if other people are in the car. I think it's worth it to fight the feelings of superiority you allude to in your last sentence.
I say all of this as somebody who thinks 95% of drivers would be best served by a Prius or Leaf.
It does in many hybrids, particularly those that can operate in EV mode at higher speeds. When heat is commanded, they often will idle under even under no load conditions just to maintain coolant temp. These are conditions which otherwise would use zero fuel.
A fun party trick in my hybrid is that I can turn on and off my engine during the winter at a stop light by using the on/off switch for the climate controls. It’s instantaneous.
Sadly the climate control pre-conditioning on the PiP only uses the battery (or mains, if left plugged in) to cool the interior before you set off, not to heat it. I guess this is because it doesn’t have reverse cycle AC, so can’t pump heat into the interior, only out of it. Far less useful in the UK than California.
So if you want heat, you have to run the engine.
> I think it's worth it to fight the feelings of superiority you allude to in your last sentence.
In every other thread about climate, people hyperventilate about the doom of climate change. But when I try to do my part, it's "100% pointless" and is characterized as merely wanting to feel superior?
This to me sounds like people want to be cynical while at the same time not wanting to do anything about it.
I love how some people get precious about cars and engines, something like "if you idle it for too long you're shortening its lifespan" and even if it's moderately true my answer would be "Yeah, so what? It's a clunky block of 19th century technology, who cares?"
Yeah sure, you don't need it to sit idle for something like 30 min, just wait for it to get a bit warm then drive away. Worrying about this will cost me more than not worrying.
You don't need to warm the engine much to get that. It will clear up even with cold wind blowing on it.
https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3174/which-i...
I also wish the expert had addressed the real question in this warming scenario - which is how many piston cycles (crankshaft revolutions) you run with an over-rich fuel mixture. It's certainly true that engine warm-up takes longer at low rpms, but it also true that if you run at driving rpms, while the elapsed time to end the over-rich fuel will be less, you will have cycled the pistons many times more than at an idle. It's the piston movement he's tagging as the engine wear culprit, and it's not at all clear how many more piston cycles there really are, if you warm at an idle. It's not even clear there are more, thinking from first principles.
At least in my performance car, there are separate gauges for engine oil, transmission fluid, coolant and air intake temperatures. Those are all exposed to me in dash.
I think traditionally, the only temperature exposed to the driver is the coolant temperature as that's usually the only one that really causes problems with overheating.
If your area reaches -40F in winter you will need a "0 Winter 30" oil grade; or 0W/30, that is more expensive but very thin so it will not freeze
5W/30 will work until -31F
10W/40 will not freeze until 0F. This is the standard grade used for both winter and summer in many temperate areas
If you use the 15W grade for tropical areas in cold places, the oil could be too thick, will freeze at night and lose their properties. If you start the car without warming it first, you will probably damage your engine and your oil pump will suffer.
Change it ASAP to the lower viscosity grade that could be managed by your engine (or keep the car in a warmed garage until spring. Your car, your choice). Check the owner manual.
A too thin oil will lubricate worse. If you live in hot climates, 10W and 15W will perform better in summer
Diesel vehicles will care of warming the diesel before to start and will refuse it unless the diesel is warm enough. If starting the car at morning takes ages, some of your glow plugs are probably broken and will need to be replaced.
This can be a delicate operation. If stuck don't force it, go to a professional with the correct tools. Old plugs can be fragile and if they break inside the engine, it will be a very expensive mistake.
“Must work when cold” is not the same as “must work at load when cold”. Most modern cars have a limited redline, until the engine warms, because of this.
I think that there is even a -5W grade for people in really extreme climates like Canada, Russia or Alaska, but I never had seen it. Maybe somebody here uses it?
The last number in oil grades will be 20, 30 or 40 typically for cars. 20 will lubricate pieces faster.
I would ask the experts that design engines and oil rather than a one-off op-ed piece from a news source with a questionable reputation, a history of sensationalism, and zero applicable scientific qualifications.
The primary reason you warm up your engine is because oil is more viscous at cold temperatures. All engine oils have cold flow characteristics and modifiers. It doesn't take a very large temperature rise for oil to thin out and begin filling the various galleries in your engine. Just a a few minutes will absolutely extend the life of your engine and prevent oil starvation on critical components.
As a side note, as your oil ages, the viscosity modifiers break down; so older oil needs more time to flow properly, _especially_ if it's been 'cooked' at high temps from the summer. For your oil changes, try to change it between seasons, or if you do a yearly change, change it in the fall after the summer heat.
(Nor will it appreciably decrease your engine’s lifespan.)
I don't think that's the case at all. The manufacturers don't say that, the oil companies don't say that, and testing doesn't show that.
Nonsense, if the oil pump and engine are built correctly and working as intended this does not cause librication not to work correctly. How many cabs would die early because they are idling in traffic all day? Your personal cars engine is not a formula one cars engine that survives one weekend of driving.
Article 23.3d 2018 Sporting Regulations After consultation with the relevant power unit supplier the FIA will attach seals to each of the relevant components within the power unit prior to them being used for the first time at an Event in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced.
Within two hours of the end of the post-race parc fermé exhaust blanking plates (with one 10mm diameter inspection hole per cylinder) and further seals will be applied to all used power unit components in order to ensure that they cannot be run or dismantled between Events.
Upon request to the FIA these additional seals will be removed after the start of initial scrutineering at the next Event at which the power units are required.
All such power units must remain within the team’s designated garage area when not fitted to a car and may not be started at any time during an Event other than when fitted to a car eligible to participate in the Event.
2018 F1 Sporting Regulations 17/70 19 December 2017 ©2017 Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile e) If any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the relevant components within the power unit after they have been used for the first time those parts may not be used again unless they were removed under FIA supervision.
and cop cars? Approximately all of them. This is well known.
https://old.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4pjnco/how_...
Cabs, police cars, UPS/Fed-Ex trucks need engine/transmission rebuilds sooner because they stop/start every day all day long. For example a Fed-Ex panel truck with a Cummins engine and Allison drive train will last for about 1 million miles without rebuild if used as a light duty such as a plumber or electrician or personal vehicle. Used as a Fed-Ex delivery vehicle it will need a rebuild at around 410K to 450K miles.
Idling is not causing the engine to need a rebuild at 40% of it's normal lifespan, its shutting it off and starting it over and over all day long.
What does polishing the timing chain accomplish? Or is it more “accurate” timing?
I’m also curious, in terms of idling and the longevity of the engine. It has to be said, those old Crown Vics are still on the road.
Isn't the article just talking about idling immediately after starting an engine on a cold day?
Cold oil doesnt recirculate very well, of course a chronicaly cold engine, with cold oil, is going to display excessive wear.
so, why "warmup" a vehicle?
two parts...
1] old model vehicles dont have digital engine control its electromechanical.
cold carburetors run out of tune, unless you have auto choke and idle tuning. so the block needs to be warm for efficiency and normal function.
2] it gets cold in the cabin of a alaskan vehicle no matter what make/model, as in deep negatives and hoar frost all over. most humans dont do well in this, and have to warmup the cabin to function outside of hypothermia. this is afew levels beyond scraping frost of a window.
For most, it's a comfort thing and not necessary.
I am asserting that the function of the car is to provide a comfortable environment, not merely to physically transport. Otherwise why does it even have a heater or an air conditioner?
I don't think there is any valid argument for austerity on this tooic. I am saying it's perfectly valid to warm the car up simply because you want to because it's more comfortable and makes clearing the windows easier, because the only reason the car even exists is to be a tool to make your life easier. If that warm up time consumes some of the device's life, so what? Every minute of use consumes a minute of it's life. These few minutes of use are no different than any other few minutes of use.
* Business insider is often a click bait.
* Taxis and Police cars idle all day. That's fine because their engine is warm. We're talking about damage being done at cold start and idle.
* The only time the engine is without much lubricant is when it is cranked.
* When the engine has started and running, oil is forced into different places that need it. Viscosity is not optimal, but it's good enough, as long as it's been changed appropriately, and not already a sludge.
* At idle, the oil pump is at its lowest output. The fast idle at cold start mitigates that. Fast idle also warms up the engine faster than normal idle. Driving it will give it good output.
* Engines do warm up slower when idling (<1k rpm) vs driven right away (2k+ rpm).
Taken all this together, it's fine to start the engine when cold, let it idle for 30 seconds, and start driving.
It's also fine to start the engine cold, and let it idle and warm up while you scrape the windshield and make a cup of coffee.
Millions of people do both of the above, and their cars are fine. Ignore Business Insider, and maintain your cars as per its manual.
Synthetic oils have a wider temp range where they maintain viscosity and lubricating properties. Of anything, always recommend good quality full synthetic oils for cold climates.
In fact it's very hard to start the engine from cold state.
So everyone who was able to afford a pre-start heater were installing them. And those who were not were hooking up auto start timers (usualy paired with a crappy aftermarket alarm) so the cars were constantly starting in low temperatures (-30 and lower).
I'm not doing it for the engine, I'm doing it so the windows thaw out, and partly so that the passenger compartment is warm. I'm doing it so I don't get in a friggin accident and kill someone.
Oh yeah, just start it and drive off, very good. OP-ED obviously doesn't live in a real winter climate.
As for stress on the engine, mine has a governor that won't let it exceed a certain speed until the engine temperature comes up.
What the article is saying here is technically correct, but I doubt the effect is as large or as detrimental as the article says.
The key point is that, as the piston moves up and down in the cylinder, the part of the cylinder wall that is traversed is alternately wetted by oil and gasoline. When it is wetted by gasoline (i.e., when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke), some of the oil can dissolve. But when it is wetted by oil again (i.e., when the piston is at the top of its stroke), as you say, the oil pump will push more oil onto the surface and replace what was lost. So the actual effect will be to very slowly decrease the amount of oil in the engine. This might also mean a small increase in engine wear, but I would not expect that to be very significant compared to all the other sources of engine wear. If one is really concerned about the possible loss of oil, just check the level between changes (which many people do anyway).
That has nothing to do with temperature, usually.
The "cylinder" is more than just the portion where combustion occurs, when the piston is at or near top dead center. The portion the article is talking about is the portion that, as I said in my previous post, is exposed to gasoline when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke--as it will be at the end of both the intake and the power strokes in a 4-stroke engine. If the mixture is rich, there will be extra gasoline present under those conditions that, according to the article, could dissolve the oil wetting the cylinder walls. That will be the case even if the rings are fine. I just don't think it's anywhere near as significant as the article claims, because, as the poster I responded to pointed out, even if some oil is dissolved in the extra gasoline, it will be replaced as the piston rises again and that portion of the cylinder wall is on the oil side of the rings.
There should also be very little to no gasoline contacting the cylinder walls at the bottom of the stroke, or at all. The air currents inside rarely directly contact the cylinder walls.
If you have any evidence that the effect you’re describing exists, it would be nice if you link to it!
Eventually, what will we be left with? Authority based credibility? Age based? If it isn’t in a 50 year old book directly available via the library of Congress it’s spam?
Ugh
Also the article claim about the power steering pump is completely wrong, as the pump runs no matter the speed or load of the pump; it will just pressure-relief through the pumps internal relief valve.
Same is true of the PRV at the oil filter. If you’re bypassing that, then you’re forcing unfiltered oil into the engine.
Also, a too high oil pressure can wash out the babbitt on main and rod bearings.
Agree that the article is bad.
Wouldn’t say “no oil” as oil control in modern engines is good but not perfect and the rings (above the oil control ring) need some oil.
So, IMO, while there's benefit to letting an engine warm up, keep it under 2k RPM for the first couple of miles; until the entire drive train is also warmed up.
As you run on cold tires, they heat back up, and the tire pressure comes up accordingly. At moderately cold temperatures (20 or so), that can be about 10-15%. At -20 or so, it’s almost 25-30%. Potential blowout territory depending on your tires condition and age.
In more extreme cases, the tires may look dead flat while cold, and perfectly normal once warmed back up.
The volume of air in the tires hasn’t changed, just it’s temperature. And they’re easy to get back up to temp with some easy driving for a few miles.
I think such articles mean: do not burn fuel for nothing, do not leave powered on ICE for long period of time, and I agree with that, but try to stating it offer something really good or really bad to expected car service life is a bit ridiculous.
The gasoline would not vaporize well in the cold carburetor so the “choke” had to be set to enrich the mixture.
When the vaporized fuel interfaces with cold metal in the intake manifold and intake passages in the head(s), the fuel condenses out of suspension, creating a very lean mixture, despite the choke being set. Combine this with dropping revs from leaving a stop in a manual transmission car, and stalls were frequent.
The solution was to allow the engine to “warm up”.
I have an old Toyota fj40 that reminds me of the before times when it’s cold.
The author of the article got many things wrong.
Washing the cylinders is a thing, but the cylinder has just had a combustion event in it that runs at 2600°F or higher. There is very little oil on the cylinder walls during the “power stroke” in a 4-cycle engine. The walls are reoiled on the exhaust, intake and compression strokes.
A study by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) found that the temperature of the combustion chamber walls (the top section of the cylinder wall), specifically, ranges from 265° F under limited throttle to 475° F with the throttle wide open.
https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/93....
The flashpoint for motor oils is 300-475° F, which is why you can maintain a thin film in the cylinder walls.
Excessive idling will foul spark plugs and valve seats.
Great and interesting replies as usual. For my two cents, don't trust the dealer where you bought your car. My wife and I bought a new Ram truck in 2021, I asked the salesmen what are the engine break-in best practices. He said he didn't know, no surprise there, so he called the service manager. The manager told him to tell me there is NO break-in required for these new "crate engines" these days!
I was shocked, so after I returned home I read the manual. It had concise instructions for breaking in both the engine and the transmission, which I was careful to do. There is plenty of stories on the web about the engine in my truck having upper engine problems, perhaps they believed the dealership.
For that 3 minutes, RPM is high, you can see it at needle and you can hear it too. Once indicator is gone, RPM needle drops and noise becomes lower too.
I needed to fit an old-fashioned radiator blind to the Mercedes van I used at work, because in the winter the engine would not reach operating temperature in a 15-mile drive from my house to my workshop.
the best bet really is block heater, its built in most vehicles here, but there are "stick on hot pads" you can put on your oilpan. these are high heat, you can cook an egg on one if you wait a little longer
If i "ran the heater without the engine on" in any of my vehicles it would just blow cold air, and for sure one uses engine waste heat for cabin heat.
On my current car it’s the latter (fuel heater). Often comes with the cold weather package package on new cars at least European ones. Those packs usually add some of heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, fuel engine/cabin heater, retractable headlight washers etc.
My last vehicle did have a bit of a valve train knock though…
The valve hydraulic lifter noise can usually be shut up by using a high detergent oil (I use Rotella t6 in vehicles that do it).
Bosnia and Herzegovina here
> In a blog post on its website, Smart Motors Toyota says letting your car idle in cold temperatures can shorten the life of your engine by stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders — two critical components that help your engine run.
> via VERIFY
Great, they got some kind of content from somewhere else. Let’s follow the link to verifythis.com:
> Yes, warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine.
> In a blog post on its website, Smart Motors Toyota says letting your car idle in cold temperatures can shorten the life of your engine by stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders
There’s even a video!
Let’s click the actual link to smarttoyota.com:
> Warming up your vehicle can actually shorten the life of your engine, by letting your vehicle idle in the cold you are actually stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders each time you do this. While you may wonder where this myth came from since it’s not true, it’s because it was once based on facts. Jake Scheafer the Service Director at Smart Motors’ says before cars and trucks were equipped with fuel management systems, they relied on carburetors and simpler fuel system management which did need significant time to warm up.
Hint: next time you make a video based on some other source, try reading at least two sentences.
OTOH, the bar seems really low for ChatGPT to emulate the capabilities of these websites…
Edit: we changed the URL from https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/weather-verif... now, to the article suggested by timmaxw and semi-extrinsic.
The idea that idling the engine for an extended time after a cold startup can cause damage is correct, and that idea is consistent in all three articles you're referring to.
Just opinion.
I’m willing to believe it but I’d like to hear some details. Surely the engine is going to warm to the same temperature soon enough?
"Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/weather-verify..." on this server.
Reference #18.6dc31302.1671993353.baa1f4a "
I am on a VPN at the moment as I am traveling in Asia.
Even so, while paywalls are my #1 complaint, US-based sites who stonewall EU visitors is my #2. All they have to do is not collect data and then they don't have to worry about GDPR. Blocking EU visitors is a cop-out, and one that hurts them more. We can probably live without their "news". They're just losing eyes and traffic.
I was able to reproduce the error you got by accessing it through a browser in the UK.
I guess the site blocks access from countries that require compliance with GDPR.
I don't think people should be required to test that the site is available in every country, before posting or upvoting.
I do agree that submitters should not be required to test the site from origins they do not live in. But once it is known that the content is region limited, we should be able to mark it as such so HN can indicate that.
If we take this to the logical conclusion, the current state left unmanaged will become a HackerNews which most of us abandon like we abandoned Digg and Slashdot because of their missteps in the past. Of course, HN doesn't derive any revenue (as far as I know?), so maybe they do not care if their readership drops way off.
They could, but are you 100% sure this would comply with the law and eliminate the risk of penalties?
I don't know which entity runs the site, whether it has assets or operations in EU countries etc.
I'm also not a lawyer.
I can't say for sure what is the right business decision for them.
I'm curious (as I'm not in the EU and don't notice) roughly what proportion of HN front page stories are unavailable in the EU?
I also can't access this site from Germany.
Edit: ok, that one (https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/weather-verif...) didn't work. Switching to the URL suggested in the comments below. Thanks!
https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-idling-your-car-i...
Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/weather-verify..." on this server. Reference #18.51d1202.1671993608.7d094d83
10-15 years from now this kind of article is going to be somewhat anachronistic sounding.