Comment by KunafaPizza | Hacker News Reader

Comment by KunafaPizza | Hacker News Reader

Seeing a lot of people here saying wearing hijab is a free-choice in Islam. As a Muslim this is totally wrong. Religion is not just "I believe in God" and now I can do whatever I want. There are rules and regulations that must be followed in private and public life. This is how Islam has always worked.

Traditionally, the Islamic government legislates and enjoins these rules upon the people. Hijab is one of those rules. From our perspective there is no logical difference between this and Western dress codes in public.

The reason people find a problem with this whole Iran/Hijab thing is not because Women are being compelled to wear it. This wouldn't make sense because governments force things on us all the time.

The real reason is that they hate the hijab. To them, the hijab is oppressive, a sign of patriarchy, a sick form of sexual repression. I mean why else are women protesting in the streets because of it? Surely it must be a symbol of oppression that is finally finding expression in public? Right?

This is a much more sensible reason for us. The haters of Islam have always been running their mouths. They have never made a difference to us Muslims.

“From our perspective there is no logical difference between this and Western dress codes in public.”

Western dress codes generally do not distinguish between men and women and for the most part the convention against exposing women’s breasts in public is not a legal one, and there are protests. And where there are protests the protestors aren’t being tortured and killed like they are in Iran.

A woman was killed by the morality police for not wearing her hijab. Where in the Koran does it say that the punishment for not wearing the hijab is death?

The reason women are protesting in Iran is not because they hate Islam. They’re protesting against an unaccountable and corrupt dictatorship which acts only in its own interests, not in the interest of upholding a fair and just Islamic society.

I thought it’s not clear how she died… it’s really muddled. Clearly Iran leadership has many problems but maybe this is more a powder keg… anyways if you saw videos of Iran you’d see hijab rules were usually lenient at least in urban places it seemed.

Your point is not quite clear. What I was able to gather is that you are Muslim.

Considering that you are spending the effort to write a comment on HN, I guess you are trying to argue for some position. Being Muslim, you have an insider view on the topic, and I'm very curious to see it.

What should my takeaway be?

I'm genuinely confused by your statements. The way I read it, when you ask "Right?", the prior sentence must be sarcastic. Is it? If so, what should the non-sarcastic explanation be?

What kind of dress codes are there for muslim men? I regularly see muslim immigrant families in the summer where the man wears shorts and no shirt, and the woman wears a long black fully covering fabric. And young daughters maybe six years old with hijab.

Men = generally the navel to the knee must be covered.

> And young daughters maybe six years old with hijab.

To encourage them to wear it, get them accustomed to it. Its not required for them.

Again if someone's knee-jerk reaction to that is "oh my God you are indoctrinating little children who are so innocent, this is child abuse!!!" then I want them to know THAT IS OKAY for them to believe.

Like I said above, hatred of Islam and its public expression is something we are used to.

People don't hate Islam, people hate measures imposed on 50% of the population.

Measures imposed on a population IS Islam. That's what people don't understand.

Yeah this is stupid and blatantly sexist. Used to live by a lot of Muslim immigrants and the boys had no covering but then you have 6yo girls that are covered head to toe.

Just guessing but that is going to mess with kids body-image and cause lots of psychological problems in the future.

I am not defending hijab, but your point about “body image” and “psychological problems” sounds odd to me. It seems to me that westerners, especially women, have way more body image issues than people in my Muslim home country. I don’t know if it’s the revealing clothing or the worship of youth. But it seems disingenuous to complain that someone else’s culture is going to cause body image issues when in your culture people in their 40s are dieting and hitting the gym striving to look like they’re in their 20s.

Hijab is a stupid relic of a bygone era (Ancient Rome and Mesopotamia) & was also adopted by some Muslim countries.

I’d guess the body image issues & mental health kinda play second fiddle to the fact that in a lot of Muslim countries you can legally beat the shit out of your wife and then rape and impregnate her…

Just as long as that stays in Afghanistan and isn’t imported to the developed world we’re all good lol.

As another Muslim, my view is that clothing that attracts attention of others doesn't fulfill the purpose of hijab. So, if you're the only one wearing a head covering, people are going to pay unnecessary attention to you. The same applies if you're the only one not wearing one.

Basically, as long as you're not dressing in a way that attracts attention to yourself, then you're fulfilling the purpose of hijab.

This is against the orthodox Islamic interpretations if you’re saying that a free woman can uncover her hair in public if that’s the social norm. It is quite well known what the limits of awrah are (the parts that need to be covered). If everyone is wearing bikinis, it doesn’t make bikinis permissible.

So if this is only your opinion, it is not an opinion based in sound evidence, or at least please bring some to support it.

There's substantial disagreement around this issue in the Muslim world as evidenced by the fact that many women don't wear head coverings. But I will say that if you're attracting attention to yourself in an effort to be modest, then that's a logical contradiction. Allah gave us the ability to reason and based on one's ability to read through the source material (Quran and Hadith), one should be able to come up with a reasonable interpretation.

I would like to note the fact that some numbers of people comply or do not comply in accordance with divine law does not imply a disagreement with the validity of the law. Rather, it may be due to someone’s ignorance, or shortcomings that they make mistakes.

Many orthodox methodologies of deriving legal rulings (fiqh) from Islamic sources already exist. Scholars from all orthodox schools of thought agree on the woman’s hair being part of what must be covered.

One can come up with many interpretations of divine revelation, but unless someone is guided on the right path, they may come up with conclusions that go astray from the correct way. This is the last part of the supplication of Surah Al-Fatihah (opening chapter of the Quran): a request to be guided on the right path and not of those who are displeasing or misguided.

So I think when you say substantial disagreement, this is not correct. Someone may accept that what they are doing is wrong but are too weak to change. Also, if the people who disagree are not educated or well-studied, their opinion holds less weight than an expert in that particular field.

Reason is very important, which is why interpreting revelation without considering the scholarly tradition may lead to unreasonable conclusions.

> the fact that some numbers of people comply or do not comply in accordance with divine law does not imply a disagreement with the validity of the law. Rather, it may be due to someone’s ignorance, or shortcomings that they make mistakes.

That's not a true premise and an argument based on that isn't sound.

In any case, I'm not on Hacker News to discuss religion, so I'll end the discussion here.

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