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Comment by spacemadness | Hacker News Reader

This is why I went back to hotels. Airbnb is a scummy company and can’t seem to survive without out of control “gotcha” fees added by either itself or its hosts which now make many hotels cheaper. I also am not obligated to do work for the host with a hotel. Some of the hosts have become super entitled over the years due to Airbnbs policies. It’s a shame as using Airbnb was an excellent experience when it first began but that obviously was on borrowed time much like the rest of the gig economy.

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I’ve stayed in 100+ Airbnbs and literally never have paid or been asked to pay an extra fee. I have, however, been surprised several times by hotels charging an extra “resort fee” upon arrival.

You’ve never had to pay a cleaning fee?

These are so egregious and can be 50% of a night cost.

I’ve had so many bad experiences with Airbnb. It’s never like in the pictures. It’s always noisier, low quality mattress and furniture that looks good on pictures but isn’t functional or breaks if you touch it. I also feel like I’m living in ikea showrooms around the world. And given how expensive the cleaning is, it’s rarely passably clean. Moldy corners in the bathroom, dirt under the bed, chipped dishes…

And good luck trying to get Airbnb to help you. Best they can usually do (after you explain your case over from scratch because it’s always a new customer service person) is “alright we’ll check you out, you get a refund, and good luck finding a place for tonight out of pocket”

Never again. It’s hotels for me every time as well.

>It’s hotels for me every time as well.

I like to search for newly built hotels as they usually offer the nicest accommodations.

Not the OP, but at least in my jurisdiction (Norway), AirBnB dutifully lists any cleaning fees before I press the 'confirm booking' button.

I think the point was 'No -surprise- fees.

They clearly meant a surprise fee, from context. The AirBnB cleaning fee is expected and already included in your bill.

Edit: top context is “That is against AirBnB rules” and “refunded” i.e. AirBnB has explicit rules against surprise fees or bonds, and it can enforce rules.

I am guessing you just responded quickly but it is always good to spend time to try to “Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.” - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I think you're guilty of what you're accusing the responder with. The exorbitance of a $200+ cleaning fee is a well-known criticism of Airbnb.

And no, not until recently could you see the actual total prior to sunken cost of Reviewing your booking. That too, Airbnb finally implemented once the Biden administration compelled them by law - that is, not before making much fanfare about it with the pretense of them "doing it for the customers"

$200 cleaning fee? How big are the houses you stay in?

$200 isn't even that large of a cleaning fee by AirBnb standards (i'd say that closer to the median for a full home in the markets I travel in).

The last 3 bedroom home I rented on AirBnb had a $500 cleaning fee. We were there 4 days. Its ridiculous, but it's becoming the standard on AirBnb.

When I used a cleaning service 10 years ago, it was $275 for 2 maids to clean 1100sqft house. 1 bath, 1 bedroom, vac+mop everywhere, kitchen dishes. They were done in ~3 hours. NYC area.

> The exorbitance of a $200+ cleaning fee is a well-known criticism of Airbnb.

People criticize all sorts of things they don't understand. Our cleaning service charges us $280 per turnover. Separating the cleaning fee from the nightly rate makes our property more appealing for longer stays, which we (and our neighbors) prefer. It's not like a hotel, where the cleaners come every day; why should guests pay every night for a cleaning which will only happen once, after they leave?

As long as its transparent and included in the per-night price calculation so I can easily compare multiple properties I do not have an issue with any fee regardless of its name.

People are annoyed because these fees are often sneaky or not apparent at first sight which makes the UX annoying.

It is not the hotels, who charge it, but governments, most often the municipality. Usually there is no obligation to hide that from the guest or include it in the price. Just to pay. You can also go pay it straight in the town hall, the hotel is just doing you a favor.

A resort fee is not the same as a tourism tax.

Tourism taxes are per head, per night and generally Airbnbs are required to charge them as well (though they often don't).

A resort fee is a bogus surcharge added by hotels to "cover" advertised amenities, like if a cinema charged you a Dolby Surround fee after you showed your ticket at the entrance.

Anecdotal evidence, I have paid tourism taxes on both hotels and AirBnBs.

Ya we got charged a mandatory 20-30$ a day fee at a hotel recently for their “arcade”, which was 2 pinball machines.., and “bar“, which was a mini fridge in the lobby… (1 “free” drink a day).

I've always refused to pay the resort fee and only a single time has the hotel not caved. Course this only works if the hotel isn't sold out.

I tell them its a separate service because not everyone uses it. So if I am not using say the pool or the gym then I shouldn't have to pay it.

The single time I paid the fee was when it included Internet service which I needed. I wrote the CEO of the chain after my stay arguing that charging extra for Internet is like charging extra for electricity or water. Never received a reply.

I was inclined to say "speak for yourself", but then that would have been rude and your username indicates we are living half way across the planet.

Things are different on this side of earth, rest assured. I have paid extra every single time.

Further, there is always things like "parking available", but then either its not free of charge or always busy or its....public parkings.

Same with internet access. Available, if you pay and if its tourism months. And the internet you get comes from a router in the hallway and is shared and at times it seemed like it has the capacity for one concurrent user.

Airbnb enables hosts to publish such things in the name of revenue.

But if a host gets in trouble, they have a half arsed wannabe collection team which will drop them like a hot potato soon.

There are no reviews of truthfulness of the offers etc.

If you have had a good experience, then irs thanks to the host, not thanks to airbnb.

I have also found some Airbnb ads to be inaccurate.

Online descriptions and reviews should be more regulated.

Google, for instance, keeps removing legitimate reviews from myself and others regarding a builder that rented / sold houses with horrible snagging problems, e.g. bursting pipes and leaky roofs.

I have a similar experience with Google removing negative legitimate reviews while not removing fake positive review from the owners itself + family & friends.

The latest scam is having to pay either a $1500 deposit, or $59 "deposit insurance", which I assume the host gets some kickback on. I know I'm not going to trash the place. But I also don't like just putting $1500 out there either. A deposit that high only exists so someone can make money off the deposit insurance.

They, speaking of the hosts, do not make anythong from deposits, I am working in finance, rest assured the reason is a different, much more nefarious one.

They want to charge you for potential damages, done by you or not, as well as wear and tear.

Never, ever put a deposit for them, not even by credit card.

And if you pay for the stay, always , always use a credit card, not a debit card. That way, you can pull the chargeback trigger on them.

A chargeback is their worst nightmare, trust me, it can have so many implications and hurt airbnb so badly if they are subject to chargebacks.

> And if you pay for the stay, always , always use a credit card, not a debit card. That way, you can pull the chargeback trigger on them.

You can chargeback with a debit card, I’ve done it a few times myself.

Isn't it only possible within the first 24-48 hours?

Not in my experience. The network carrying the transaction may still be mastercard or visa in most cases and a chargeback is just debiting the merchants account for the amount.

Keep in mind you should treat chargeback as nuclear weapon. AirBnB/other website will terminate your account.

I was already losing satisfaction in AirBnb but have been open to it if traveling companions were into it. But the nail in the coffin is these deposits. The last few AirBnBs that I have vetted have had these $1,000+ deposits. There was even one I found that had $2,500 deposit (granted it was a large house).

I can stay at a 5 star hotel for a $50 deposit on my credit card. I'll just do that instead. Like you said, its not even really about tying up the money either. I would put this on my AMEX which has no credit limit, so tying up $1,500 isn't really the problem, its the need to authorize a host that I don't personally trust to be able to make any claim they want to justify keeping part of that deposit. I have much more trust in Marriott or Hilton and they only need $50. In all the traveling I've done, I've never had them refuse to release a deposit in full. By contrast, I've met enough crazy AirBnb hosts, that i wouldn't trust them with $100, let along $2,500.

Cleaning fees are also ridiculous. I've seen a lot of $500+ cleaning fees. Come on! What kind of cleaning are you doing for $500?!

I don't really care. If people want to go to AirBnbs, then great. I've had some good experiences with them, but i've also had several bad ones. I don't like the risk I need to take each time with the host. I also am getting fed up with the calculating the "real cost" for each one when comparing them. I'd rather go to Marriott or Hilton where they treat me like a God. So I'm basically done with AirBnb at this point.

I've never had a terrible experience with AirBNB (although the week I spent working in Montreal living on top of one of the greatest party corners came close but it wasn't the fault of the host or AirBNB.)

Personally though I've come to appreciate hotels more and my experience is that you can usually find a decent hotel room for about what an AirBNB costs and I usually like going to a hotel better. (There was that one in Chinatown in NYC that the experience of finding it was somewhere between The Blade Runner and a James Bond movies, I'm not sure if that is a good review or not.)

It forced hotels to have more competitive prices.

Honestly, there was not much else it could do in the long term.

It did not.

Booking.com did that.

I do however always choose an apartment for corporate trips, but always via booking.com.

This is sort of a funny argument. I promise that AirBNB prices have no impact or influence on hotel prices. It is generally the opposite, AirBnB rates are often influenced by the prices of surrounding hotels.

The number of travelers staying at an Airbnb versus a hotel is under 1%. This is clear by looking at overall inventory available. Even a decent market _might_ have 100 AirBnB listings, that same market will have several thousands (possible 10,000+) of hotel rooms.

Generally the opposite is true. AirBnb hosts will justify their nightly rate based on comparable hotels in the area. But the average Marriot for example isn't all that worried about the handful of AirBnbs nearby that they might be losing customers to.

That depends on the place. Where I live the near touristic destinations have poor tourism infrastructure so AirBnB and similar is thriving there.

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