Why didn't you buy a Tesla?
HN readers seem like one of the most likely group to buy a Tesla due to the technical nature of the readership. So what were your reasons for not doing so?
In general the insides of the cars are far too barebones and cheap feeling. I don't get why people think them sticking a full size computer monitor in the car makes it high end. Give me refined, tactile physical buttons and controls for the features essential to safe driving and give me a cool touch screen for the other stuff.
The FSD lies. Elon's crazy antics the last few years. His "leadership" and decision making at Twitter has made me second guess everything he has a hand in. The list of "why not buy" grows longer than "why buy" every day. Especially now that the rest market has caught up and there are other actual options out there.
I also think plug-in hybrids are the best choice for many people right now. A 30-40 mile electric range gets most of us through our daily commutes, and you've got the gas motor for long trips so you don't need to plan charging in advance...you just get in the car and go.
I would not buy a car that was centrally touch-screen controlled. Long live knobs and buttons!
I dunno, I kinda like it. Have you spent some time driving one? You might change your mind.
I guess I don't quite understand the concern here. Defrost buttons aren't in a standard place anywhere, you need to hunt for them. In a Tesla you can just put it in autopilot while you do. Or you can click the (physical, heh) right thumb button on the wheel and say "Turn on Defrost".
I'm not going to tell people not to hate Musk (and I'm certainly not going to defend the disaster at Twitter), but... the cars are really, really great.
No, not everyone is going to like everything, but when I see stuff like "insane", "cheap", "lies", "crazy" in posts like this, I think it's pretty clear the rhetoric has gotten way too far ahead of the truth.
With a button, even if you look once to confirm its location, there's physical feedback of "you're touching the button and not the edge between two buttons", "you've depressed the button" and "you've released the button".
The difference in physical feedback means the difference between looking and watching - and the time required to watch your finger interact with a virtual button and verifying that the interaction was registered.
Do you express similar concerns over the serious safety issues in the human factors interaction involved in defrost actuation on rental cars?
While sure, it's not too hard to find the Defrost button on the touch screen, I'd still rather have a physical button.
It's not a deal breaker for me, though.
I also hated my Audi. The display is filled with garbage I don't care about. I do not care in the slightest about my engine RPM and yet it takes up almost half of the display. But that is just visual. A lot of the physical buttons still felt the same and were next to each other so you had to look down to find it and change something. Most people sitting in the car couldn't figure it out, but had little trouble figuring out the Tesla display
Most of the time I prefer the touch screen on our Model Y but there are some things that BADLY need a physical controls:
* Defrost/defog/AC
* Wipers (the Auto mode is hilariously terrible)
* The god damn glove box
* The back seat lights (I have kids and need to look back there often)
Kinda meta, but this sentence was trippy AF to read. Engine RPM is something quite valuable to me as a driver, even in my CVT automatic subaru. It's a direct link to the heart of the engine - to know how hard I'm pushing it.
It's still possible to redline an engine (especially in an Audi), and knowing how close you are is important. It's especially important in winter, since not paying attention to your engine's RPMs when you're trying to get un-stuck is a great way to start a car fire.
In any case I don't think it needs to be a massive round dial the size of my fist. It could be a small bar next to a text only MPH/KPH display that goes up and turns red.
Hypothesis: This is directly related to whether a person views driving as a skill to be mastered, or as a means to get from point A to point B.
And yet tablets/phones offer software keyboards because they're not obsolete yet. But that's a tangent, and I get your point.
And it's not an unreasonable point. But we're not there with cars yet. At least not those whose engines still include a link between the accelerator and the engine.
For example, I can see why knowing your RPM in a hybrid would be useless, since the motor/engine combination is entirely controlled by a computer (I still wish it was there, perhaps only because I'm used to having that information, and I feel poorly equipped to drive the car well without it).
But in an ICE vehicle, even a modern one, you still have surprising amount of direct control over the RPM. You also have control (or at least pseudo-control) over the operation of the transmission in most automatics. Even my CVT Subaru has the ability to override the CVT and set my own gear.
All this means that you can still operate the vehicle at or above the "unsafe for the engine" line... You still need insight into how quickly the engine is turning over.
The interior of their cars are boring and frankly very cheap feeling. I just rode in a brand new Model 3 and was astonished by the plasticky feeling interior.
I currently drive a Kia Stinger GT2 which I think will be my last ICE car. I am hoping more and more EVs launch and look more and more like ICE cars. I generally don't like the design and exterior body lines of Teslas, the Kia EV6, and say the Nissan Leaf.
When Hyundai or Kia puts out an EV version of their existing sedans with a sporty option (N-Line or GT) I'll probably upgrade out of my Stinger and into an EV.
I've had three bad experiences in safety situations that would have been avoided with tactile physical controls.
And since then, my opinion has changed to that of certain controls that are required during operation of the vehicle should remain tactile.
I drove a Ford Mach-E over this past summer, and was disappointed that Ford went all touchscreen in that EV.
Just my opinion of course, but I find all of the Tesla models except the model s just outright ugly vehicles.
Also I agree that the design of most of the EVs out there just seem “meh”. I do like the look of the new Lexus RZ that is coming’s though. And would consider that one if I ever decided to get an EV, but we would keep an ICE car for the occasional longer road trips we take. I don’t find EVs practical for longer trips.
Honestly... I just kind of want a base model Subaru Forester but electric.
If you get the feeling it's hyped, stop believing the media (esp. about Elon) and rent it for a week, or a weekend's long trip.
Most of the stuff you setup once and you forget it exists, because the car was designed to stay out of your way. I have done 0 maintenance in 3y, except for tire rotations.
Most "OMG I NEED A BUTTON" things are either reachable via voice control (usually good enough if you ask me), or you may have already AP engaged and you can do it via touchscreen in <3s. Climate control is usually good at keeping a good temperature w.r.t. to the outside, so it's mostly a +- 0.5°C quick-tap when it feels to warm or too cold (and the up/down controls are always present on-screen). Integrated navigation w/ Supercharger network is so amazing, it's boring. I can hop in the car for a 2000km unplanned trip, and the car will make sure I get there by planning all charging stops, preconditioning the battery for fast charging, and you can also add intermediate destinations to plan more complex trips. The first time I checked out my parents new cars (my father owns VW ID.4, my mother a Peugeot e-208) it felt like the Enterprise's deck, with buttons popping out everywhere, and you usually need a phone to have modern/up to date navigation support in addition.
Updates are usually about rolling out new (mostly opt-in) features, or bugfixes, or sometimes improving quality of life considerably (latest was "auto blinkers", last month). Sometimes they are required to improve or fix critical battery/powertrain/driving management issues. When they decide to shuffle stuff in the UI without appeal, that sucks, agreed, but it's usually for the better and it's generally an easy transition - in a couple days I usually forget I had a different UI. I can tell you for sure I'd rather have any time a 30m update installation overnight every couple weeks, than fiddling 3 days preparing a 64GB USB stick in the right format for the car to consume, only for it to fail multiple times. Or bringing in the car for service a couple days just to allow perform a "recall" that could have been only virtual. Or dealing with Bad Software Practices® anyway, like releasing v3.4 but calling it "v3.3 (rev 2205)" in the dashboard (all parents experiences).
The cute gimmicks are an opt-in, you don't need to use/enable them all the time, or at all :)
Build and materials quality were ok to overlook when Teslas used to be the only sensible EV option. Now the market is full of interesting EVs. Why pay German car money to get a car that's built like a budget car?
Not even. Most budget cars don't have this kind of crap going on.
https://youtu.be/5_kAz2v7scQ?t=733
There's a bunch of bad stuff noted throughout the video, unfortunately interspersed with random modding/repair stuff, but the substandard welding seems like the worst. That's unsafe to begin with, and I've seen multiple reports of related rust problems in as little as two years in coastal climates - less than a Yugo and those were famously bad. It's an absolute no-go in a car that costs so much.
• It has an outstanding design. Tesla's approach of making average-looking cars was a great move a decade ago to counter reputation of EVs being weird experiments, but now it's just bland.
• It has physical controls for most things. Model 3 is too minimal to the point of being gimmicky.
• It has Car Play. Tesla has better-quality software, but I don't like their monochrome map design in particular. In Tesla there's no other choice.
• Where I live there aren't many Superchargers.
• I prefer driving assists in Ioniq. It's hard to describe, but my overall feeling is that it wants to cooperate with the driver rather than take over and replace the human entirely. Both are nice when they work well, but when they fail, Tesla is more stressful and harder to correct.
• Ioniq has a HUD and a 360° camera.
• Not tainted by Musk's antics.
Do I think Elon is a douche nozzle? Hell yes. I wish he'd finish killing twitter and shut up.
Do I hate how some of the controls are done? Yes. Do I think some of their choices like removing USS are dumb? Heck yes.
But on the flip side they have the only fully integrated EV experience and it makes a HUGE difference. If you think it doesn't today, just watch Out of Spec Review's "Unwrapping The Christmas Week From Hell For EV Drivers Using CCS" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4e8GfBzqSk
I may not love everything about a Tesla, but I know that when I drive it I'll be able to charge it. We're still in the chicken/egg stage of charging in the USA. Tesla's the only company to have it really figured out and that makes all the difference.
If I want to drive south out of Portland to California, along I-5, there are 6 CCS charging locatinos with 4 chargers each that are at least 70 kW, totaling 24 chargers along the I-5 corridor in Oregon outside of Portland.
Meanwhile, there are 7 Tesla Supercharging locations with a total of 70 stalls.
Also, Superchargers tend to be a bit less expensive than 3rd party CCS chargers.
I'd be nervous driving a car that only charges via CCS.
That said, non-compatibility seems to work in Tesla's favor currently, so who knows if/when it'll materialize.
We still opted for that "full" supercharger because it was more convenient for when we wanted to stop. But we knew what we were in for in advance because the car told us. The wait time was almost nothing. Also every charger was functioning at full capacity without issue.
If you want the "I don't need to think about fueling up" feeling like ICE vehicles have, the only option today is Tesla. I hope that in a few years that will be a totally different story. That others will be out there will their own extensive (functioning) charging networks, and other manufacturers will have kick ass vehicles.
Personal feelings aside about Elon's behaviour online I believe Tesla's in-car software is lightyears ahead of any other EV out there.
2. I believe they have cameras inside the car uploading to Tesla HQ. GTFO with anything like that.
3. As I understand it the build quality is fairly low for the price. This is possibly a rumor but it's another thing about trust.
- I want to be able to hook up a small, efficient generator, maybe as a back-mounted module. But Teslas can't be charged while in motion.
(I don't want to _own_ such a generator. I want to rent one for long distance trips. Preferably one that uses 100% Ethanol or some other carbon neutral fuel. You get the point.)
Uh... that's the only spot where there's any adjustment shown[1]. Everything shows list price in the configurator. You want red, it shows "$2000" right there on the button. No adjustments. I mean, have you actually purchased a car from a dealer? It's just wild that you'd thing Tesla of all parties was the one obfuscating the transaction. It's the smoothest and most obvious purchase experience on the market.
> I believe they have cameras inside the car uploading to Tesla HQ
This is wildly wrong, where did you read that? Someone lied to you. There's a camera for driver attention monitoring (IIRC there's a rumor it'll soon be usable for video calls too), but no video telemetry happens. "Tesla HQ" does see where your car is though, and has access to stuff like charge data. Mostly people view that as a feature; there's a robust community of analysis tools available for us to nerd out over the cars. (To be fair: FSD beta vehicles will batch upload video from the exterior cameras on disengagement for training purposes, but that's an opt-in program).
[1] For reference: they're adjusting for fuel cost of the vehicle vs gasoline, which I can attest is a very real effect. My 19k mile model Y has spent $1100 on electricity so far.
When I used the configurator it did not look like the current site. You can see it here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200205163057/https://www.tesla...
> This is wildly wrong, where did you read that? Someone lied to you. There's a camera for driver attention monitoring (IIRC there's a rumor it'll soon be usable for video calls too), but no video telemetry happens.
This article seems to say you can opt-out of the footage for the interior but maybe I'm wrong.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-interior-cameras-dr...
https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/teslas-in-car-camera...
Their privacy policy indicates they gather Autopilot data (Vehicle equipped camera suite that provides advanced features such as Autopilot, Smart Summon, and Autopark) but not sure if that includes the interior.
"To protect your privacy, camera images do not leave the vehicle itself and are not transmitted to anyone, including Tesla, unless you enable data sharing."
https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy#information-we-may-colle...
That's not a rumor, that was announced.
Compare this to the final paper we got from Tesla: https://ibb.co/rsqGvFq
1. Too expensive. I grew up too poor to spend that much money on a car. I recently failed to pull the trigger on a $65k Volvo XC40, so the initial Tesla models that were even more expensive than that are clearly right out.
2. By the time a less-expensive model came out, it came with what seemed like the worst possible UI imaginable. Not having an instrument panel in front of the driver is ludicrous.
With no other issues, those two alone explain why I did not buy a Tesla. But of course, there's more. Although I initially passed up the brand because of the high cost, I developed more reasons with time. In as near to chronological order as I can recall:
3. "Full Self-Driving" is either a delusion or a swindle, and the continued insistence on it puts me off the brand.
4. "Fit and finish" issues are widespread, and I cannot fathom spending so much on a car and then accepting bits that aren't fit together perfectly, and I lack the personality needed to aggressively follow up and get them all resolved.
5. Open defiance of the authorities during a pandemic that was killing people rises to almost the level of a sole disqualification by itself. It pushes several of my buttons at once.
6. The open antagonism between the company and drivers is bizarre. Every time a high-profile collision prompted Tesla to release information most people would consider private in an attempt to show that it wasn't the company's fault, I grew less likely to consider any purchase ever.
7. "Pedo guy" and related. Ultimately, the owner of Tesla has worked hard to make himself the face of the company, while also engaging in what should be brand-damaging behavior. It didn't seem to damage the brand, but rather encouraged his fans, which itself damaged the brand in my eyes. Long before his purchase of Twitter, he had destroyed any possibility of me wanting to be associated with his companies' products.
Fortunately, you asked for my reasons, so I assume there won't be a devoted legion of fans arguing every point below. My reasons are my own, and don't have to convince anyone else.
I think FSD will happen eventually.
What people don't understand is that if you buy FSD now, you're not paying for a feature you get now, you're paying for a feature that you'll get later as it's developed. You're paying for early access in the beta. Also, Elon has stated that the price of FSD will increase over time as it improves. By buying it now, you're insulating yourself from future price increases.
That said, Elon's marketing of it is pretty deceptive. He talks as if it's only 6 months away, but you'd have to have had your head in the sand to not notice that he's been saying FSD is < 6 months away for YEARS. If you're spending thousands of dollars on a feature that seems very pie-in-the-sky, then I would hope you'd do research on it first. Even just 10 minutes of research would yield a conclusion that FSD isn't there yet and won't be there for several years.
If it matters at all, I've been a Tesla owner for 3 years, did not buy FSD, and will not buy FSD. Autopilot is all I need.
* The sound proofing feels as if it did not exist. The cabin noise in my family's old minivan is even quieter than in this car.
* The ride is incredibly bumpy (I hear this issue is specific to the Model Y?). You feel each and every bump, even on newly paved roads.
* Autopilot, at least on the roads I drove on, was significantly worse than other manufacturer's lane-following systems. I was driving on straight highways that frequently switched between one lane and two lanes. Without fail, every time the two lanes merged into one, autopilot would get confused and jerk the steering wheel left, steering the car past the double yellow lines (USA) into the oncoming traffic lanes. The screen's depiction of what the car saw did not match reality at all in this situation.
* The automatic emergency braking triggered at least once every time I was on the highway.
There were definitely things I did like about the car, but I would never consider personally buying a Tesla for the reasons above.
(Yes, I realize this is true of a lot of other cars besides Teslas, I don't buy them either)
Part 2: Tesla is a non-traditional car company, and while that can be good, it has many negatives:
a) there is not a good service/warranty network. Dealership service is mediocre, but widely available.
b) there is not good parts availability
c) I've heard there are many production changes within a model year, making it harder to match parts.
d) OTA upgrades are IMHO a net negative for a car; reducing incentives to get software right the first time
e) I've not seen any other car company try to convince the general public that the cause of an owner's death was the owner's negligence. Other car companies have the decency to not comment on pending investigations and not cast public aspersions upon the deceased. Other car companies do cast aspersions at review organizations and sometimes news organizations, but generally not regular people.
f) selling FSD is clearly fraud, and why would I buy from a fraud, unless the fraud gets me more power, smoother idle, better fuel efficiency, and an above market buy-back? (Thanks VW)
g) I need useful headlight controls and wiper controls. I have one vehicle where it's difficult to turn off headlights, and that's enough. Like a phone without a headphone jack, a car where you can't easily turn off the headlights when you need to is something you can work with, but it's very annoying. I'm not spending Tesla car money to be annoyed unnecessarily.
h) fit and finish don't seem to match expectations based on price
- living in apartments which don't have charging ports/stations
- not enough home equity to buy model X/Y
- not enough salary to make monthly payments
- your kids get bullied because you drive model 3 [1]
- electric vehicle is always a second vehicle in a household, and you need to have another ICE vehicle.
2. cars can be a hobby (even if they aren't cheap and not the greatest for the environment) (detailing them, modifying them, going to car meets/clubs with owners loyal to the brand for years who have specific history and knowledge/experiences/stories)
3. I'm too much of a control freak to be able to "relax" while the car "drives itself" (to any degree).
4. I kind of like "being a hipster" and avoiding what's mainstream. I don't see how one can have a strong sense of identity when everybody has a Tesla.
It may be niche, but really, if I could tweak the power curve of my accelerator, and have my driving experience as an expression of those micro "tonal" adustments, I wonder if that could really make the electric vehicle experience.
I've been researching EVs and there are still cars with physical controls, e.g. Kia Niro, Hyundai Ioniq 5.
If you look at YouTube reviews of cars, the lack of physical controls is often one of the things they complain about. I'm convinced car makers are paying attention to feedback on this topic, and hopefully it's a fad that will die soon.
- I don’t need a car
- I don’t like the look of them, particularly the interior.
- I live in an apartment with only on-street parking so I’d have to rely on public charging points which are expensive and subject to a lot of competition.
The touch-screen-driven interface completely turns me off. Real knobs and buttons or GTFO.
I do not want any vehicle which phones home, especially not if it's going to download new software and change the way it works from one day to the next.
Tesla's self-driving system seems like an especially bullshit-ridden attempt at solving a very hard problem, and that reduces my confidence in their overall engineering quality.
From both a money and an environmentally friendly aspect, I'm pretty sure a shiny new Tesla would pretty much never pay for itself. And I view cars as tools not toys.
The architecture of Tesla's infotainment system is abhorrent to me. If there's a flaw on the system that causes it to crash, you're left out in the dust with regards to any of your information surfaces.
This is relevant since last year, there was an issue where Google Maps (which provides the map tiles for Tesla) was returning 500-style errors for requests and Tesla's entire infotainment entered a boot loop, restricting visibility on Speed and alerts generated by the car.
For contrast, Polestar based their system where the infotainment system (Android Automotive) runs as a virtual machine on top of the RTOS the runs the rest of the vehicle. This provides the system some redundancy in how things operates on multiple levels. Google Maps crashes? ANR from Android. Android crashes? Infotainment reset.
The key difference is that Polestar is a _car_ company that draws it's lineage from Volvo who is nuts about being safe in the vehicle, even at the expense of all the bells and whistles.
That's not to say that they're perfect though. Polestar's mobile app is _aweful_. It crashes frequently, it's slow to update the status, and overall it's just Volvo's app.
Anyways, if anyone has any questions about the car, I'm happy to tell both sides.
And on top of all that I just know business owners, the moment they start talking about 'mission' and 'vision' or 'future' is the moment they are trying to screw you over. Likewise the moment they start to advertise themselves in their personal capacity it's because they know that the product is weak and can't stand on its own merit, so it needs constant cheerleading/fluffing.
I used Windows before I knew who Gates was, I used Amazon before I knew who Bezos was, I was googling before I knew who Sergey & Larry & Shcmidt were, same with Facebook and Youtube.
In the car department I am very happy with my BMW 3-series. If I ever feel the need to drive faster than that, I'll just go to the track and pay for 10-15 laps on a Corvette or a Mustang, a Ferrari or a Lambo if I feel exotic.
That's about it, I also don't care about climate change, emissions , the Ozone layer and all the stuff that Tesla zelots seem to be so extremist about .
- I'm cheap, and they're not.
- tablet UX sucks.
- dangling an extension cord out of my apartment window also sucks.
- FSD is a lie.
- baby it's cold outside: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/winter-ev-range-loss
- I have a perfectly good ICE car that is fully paid off and I intend to drive it into the ground and it's only got 75k on the odo and it'd better be good for another 200.
- I am waiting for the Cambrian explosion of EVs to chill out before I'm comfortable settling on some basic expectations for a return to sane driver controls, and ideally the simpler the better.
- Elon's an ass.
- Surprise lithium fires also suck.
The leaf will go to my teenager in a few years, and then I'll probably buy a mid size hybrid crossover. The electric car is good for daily driving near home, but not great for road trips in the rural mountain west.
EV would be great most of the time, but we still have elders to visit who live beyond-EV-range away and in one case, in the sticks with no high-capacity EV recharging infrastructure nearby anyway.
If it was an EV as a second car, no problem, it would probably get 90% of all the use.
As for what EV? Just like the particular kind of geek that I am is closed-system resistant and therefore avoids Apple (and is disappointed by where Android, Windows, and (if a certain L.P. has his way) even Linux is going), I just don't like the "great car if you 100% buy into the ecosystem/religion" thing of Tesla. I'd prefer something that is more of a normal car that happens to be electric, rather than a cult object.
But with the single car requirement, what I actually want is a plug-in hybrid with enough battery to go about 100km on a charge. That too would make 90% of our mileage electric without sacrificing the dino juice powered instant go anywhere capability. But nobody makes those, or do they? The 2023 Prius Prime looks like the pick of the litter of the 50km-ish plug in hybrids; will have to look at it. It has to pass the rear seat headroom and trunk space comparison to our current 2012 Civic.
I fully expect thing to tilt more in the future. Once 30 minute charging stations outnumber dino juice gas stations - even out in the sticks - and the electricity from them is competitively priced, then gas cars are over.
Also, i dislike driving EVs.
(2) Just not a fan of the "design language" as another commenter put it. I positively do not want everything run through a built-in tablet, especially with all of the bugginess people have noted. That's fine for navigation and entertainment, but I want real physical dials and buttons for the basics.
(infinity) Elon is a total douchenozzle. I was saying so at least six years ago, when my new FAANG co-workers all gave me some serious side-eye for that, but it really wasn't a factor in my decision.
I ended up getting a Nissan Leaf SV+ which I like quite a lot. With the benefit of hindsight I now think I would have been even better off getting the electric Mini despite its pathetic range (I drove a Mini for 13 years before and literally cried to see it go). A plug-in hybrid might be an even better fit for my actual needs. But that's all water under the bridge. I'll give full credit to Tesla for doing an awesome job on charging systems (both ends), and for providing a necessary prod to other makers, but as a purchaser the rest seems mediocre to actively bad.
I would still buy a Bolt over Tesla but I needed an electric SUV & model Y is the only option.
There's a strain of naive utopianism that runs through Silicon Valley culture, the sense that if we could just rub enough computer on a thing it will become better necessarily, decades of industrial practice and safety research be damned. Teslas are the ultimate consequence of that mindset.
I don't have a £50k+ budget (here in the UK) to spend on a car and I am still cautious about the practicality, maintenance costs, and resale value of an EV.
At the moment it seems that Teslas/EVs are fine in term of practicality if you only commute locally and can charge every day at home, but then that makes the price tag even less palatable. So I intend to keep my diesel (boo!) for as long as I can and see where things go.
We've all seen the erratic behavior, so no need to go too far on what, but my wife really soured on him around the time of the kids trapped in a cave situation. That was the start for me too, but it's just gotten worse, and I don't want to be associated with that.
Had a friend get in my Audi for a test drive and was wowed by the build quality compared to his parent's Tesla, just night and day difference. Admittedly the software needs work, I notice issues the most on the user management side of things.
There are real buttons in my car, yes there is a touchscreen for plenty of options, but turning on my seat warmer is one button.
All electric cars were hard to get when we bought, we just happened to have a line on the Audi Q4 eTron that would get it in reasonable time. Had to be 4 wheel drive and able to tow a small trailer, and while the Tesla options offered that, so did the Audi and others. (Seems that 2022 model year was when all non-Tesla electric crossover sized vehicles started to offer towing.)
- I make computers do cool things and having software running most of my car sounds fun
- I prevent computers from doing bad things and having software running most of my car sounds horrifying
I'm in the later camp. I drive a Nissan Frontier where the only computers are the CAN bus (and maybe some specific engine parts) and an aftermarket rear view camera addon. Hand crank windows. One lock.
I'd accept electronic voting only if they print a paper ballot after and a spot check system is in place to confirm the counts.
I have more faith in cars and planes, as at least those have more public failures.
I really don't like the interior of the Tesla. I want a speedometer in front of me. And I want to use my phone, wireless Android Auto is all I need. I absolutely will not pay for another device (and a subscription fee!) when I have my phone. And I want some real buttons.
My original reason (years ago, admittedly) was because my coworker missed a day because an overnight update prevented his door handles from opening. Yeah.. I absolutely do not trust software devs to patch my car that regularly. :)
The biggest reason was probably a lack of trust. I put my family in my cars. Recently, I saw they had an issue with the force that the window closes and the software didn't stop the window closing if there was a block (like a my kids or dog). That's the sort of thing I expect established car manufacturers to have figured out already, and why I bought a GM rather than Tesla with a very shaky quality history.
https://www.caranddriver.com/kia/ev6
…which looks better, is relatively affordable, has a dealer network behind it that can actually do repairs, and isn’t so…boring. A Tesla is the default—it’s what you buy to show people you have an electric car.
Drives way too close to people (tailgating).
Drives way too fast all time, even in neighborhoods.
Drives way too aggressive.
Drives way too entitled. I’ve seen some crazy stuff from people driving a Tesla. Driving on the shoulder when traffic backs up. Zipping around people to steal parking spots.
I don’t want to be a Tesla driver and ever be associated with the above behavior.
Aren't they popular in Norway? (Are you somewhere colder?)
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hittin...
"Four out of five new cars sold in Norway in 2022 were battery powered, led by Tesla"
I drove ~1,800mi this past weekend (mostly through rural parts of the country), that would have been challenging (assuming possible) in an ev.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_charge#Voltage_method
But yes the energy consumption is a lot higher in the cold mostly because of the heating and the air density. On long trips it’s not so bad because the battery heats up during the charging stops and the car can transfer the battery heat to the cabin.
But you need chargers. Norway had an old projects years ago about having chargers at least every 50km on the main roads in many areas. It helped a lot.
Norway's average low temperature in January is only -5C (23.5F), so it isn't as cold as Sweden and Finland and isn't anywhere near as cold as Canada's prairies which get down to -50C in the winter.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Norway#Weatherboxes
They weren't especially flashy outside but looked good enough. Then I got in one. Hmm, this looks like a Toyota with a big screen (that has a ton of issues itself).
Went on a few trips with an owner. The handles that retract had to be replaced a few times. I'm thinking, this is a feature nobody needed and now it's a new source of issues. On a longer trip we have to stop at several WaWas for twenty+ minutes. On the way back after stopping to charge the message "Your Tesla might not restart" appears on his infotainment screen.
A number of similar interactions leaves me to believe that if that's the best there is in electric vehicles, we're not there yet. The cars do not seem premium (but command a premium price), suffer from some unnecessary own goals and often seem cobbled together.
I have similar reasons for not getting solar panels either: they are ugly and the ROI is like 10 years out so I may never see any return if I move. There is an interesting solar roof shingle out there that looks like a normal residential roof.
I don't know how true this is. I'm used to taking my cars to my local mechanics. Can I take a tesla to a local mechanic?
I think they are just too expensive (seems to be #1 reason or #2). The idea of a $1000 monthly payment is abhorrent to me. For the price so many other cool cars come into the picture.
I like German cars. I drive a late-model Audi A4 that I bought outright for under $20k. I'll probably hop around from there to BMW and Mercedes. Drive all the cool cars I couldn't afford when I was younger.
Even though I work in tech and can appreciate what Tesla is trying to do -- hell, I love that they put the name TESLA back into the public consciousness -- I'm not a fan of the cars.
I think the roadster is cool, but that could only be a plaything. And again, waay too expensive when you consider what else you could get in that price-range. Anyone buying those probably already has a fleet of SUVs and a carbon footprint the size of Godzilla.
No
Also, having worked at a software company (Amazon) and now a car company, I don't want a car made by a software company.
I paid off a Hyundai last year. I will probably drive that into the ground, and then find some other used EV whose batteries have a good reputation.
The most appealing thing about buying a Tesla, to me, is not having to deal with a normal car dealership.
Basically a group of extremely successful people with massive audiences who complain about “the woke mind virus” and “being silenced by cancel culture” unironically.
When I got the car Tesla was the only real game in town for a serious, capable EV with a hint of luxury. Now they have serious competition. Having experienced their support and quality decline, combined with Elon's descent into whatever the hell this is (it certainly isn't leadership), my next vehicle purchase will likely be from one of the legacy brands. Especially as more L3 chargers are built outside the supercharger network.
I can't pull a stuck tractor out of a field or take an unmaintained trail down to secluded river/creek access in a Tesla. Better EV options for me are on the way, but they all cost way too much. It will be another generation or two before I really consider an EV seriously.
I did not had burning need to have electric vehicle and the charging network here is not super practical. It was always expensive car, I prefer better cost benefit ratio. I also want more reliable car (I always checked reliability indexes and stats before buying car). Tesla was status symbol, pepple bought it cause it was "cool", but I did not cared about having that all that much.
While the vehicle is actually a PHEV, I have been able to drive the car primarily on battery (13k miles - 12k exclusively on battery):
-30 miles or less driven per day on average. -“Free” unlimited charging in front of my townhome -Free charging at work -Michigander in the suburbs (charging network is abysmal) -Desire to go up north on a whim without range anxiety (fall back on ICE)
And for you CO2 nerds: a new car costs a lot of CO2 just to manufacture, no matter what it runs on. Running my existing 100% ICE car until its inoperable will produce less CO2 than manufacturing an electric one. I also live in an area whose electricity is still mostly powered by fossil fuels.
When I do the math, number of miles I drive, cost of gas, cost of maintenance - all the costs associated with car ownership - the projected payoff for a Tesla for me is 20-25 years. I don't think the cars will last that long.
I'm excited about other automakers getting into the fold. If they can get the costs lowered by $15K-$20K then it'll be economically viable.
Despite: * distaste for musk personally * cheap feel of cars * concerns around fit/finish
Came down to: * supercharger network and all the issues folks with other brands have with other charging networks * what I perceived to be a short term technology lead and track record other manufacturers don’t have * availability. I got a model y in 4 weeks. Some of the others I considered were a year or more out.
I did buy an EV recently, but at that point, Tesla really doesn't have a competitive edge. They made EVs cool, but other manufacturers now have cars that have better interior styling and better performance for a comparable price.
I used to tow a utility trailer with a small gas car. It worked fine, but this is just so much easier and more luxury. I don't believe any EV could handle this use case.
I like sports cars that have the top go down.
I like noise.
Didn’t have any real connection or soul.
Terrible seats for driving on backroads. Super hard to stay in place. Kept sliding all over the seat due to no bolstering.
I was considering buying an Ariel atom around the same time I was looking at a Tesla - if that gives you any idea of what I like.
There is a trend amongst luxury cars, I think driven by Tesla, of moving towards minimalism, which to me feels like a move away from luxury.
Also touchscreen for important controls is an instant "will not buy" for me.
Brand loyalty is strong. Some will buy a shitty car from their favourite brand instead of reading a bit.
When money isn’t a problem, some cars are better in some aspects. I like the Tesla Model S but if I had the money, I would consider a Posche Taycan or a Mercedes EQS. Though I would perhaps not tolerate their software as I understood it is far from being perfect.
Fear of change is also something important. Having a Tesla in Norway is way past the early adopters phases but some people still resist and will be very late just to be safe.
Tesla provides a shitty owner experience. Ordering one is very easy and great, it’s like ordering an Apple device. But picking up your car on a shitty parking using your phone and having no humans in the loop may feel strange.
Spare parts are not available quickly and it is known. Tesla should improve that because it is not uncommon to hear about someone who can’t use his broken Tesla for months because some parts are still not delivered.
Some people like internal combustion engines and the noise, the smell, the vibrations. I understand them and I think they will become rare as they are getting old.
Elon Musk.
I ~~use ArchLinux and program in Rust~~ currently own a Tesla by the way.
But I heard friends bought a Tesla since an online order was easier than dealing with car dealers.
And Tesla is not a sports car or a luxury car. So why buy them.
Everything commonly done in the car should have a physical control associated with it that can be operated by touch alone.
- they won't hold my whole family
1. my 2012 car still works 2. Stopped driving in the pandemic 3. not sure I can go full EV yet
I am looking at Hybrid minivans though
I bought my Model 3 Performance because I wanted ripping fast 0-60 without breaking the bank, both in purchase price and economy. I can afford more now, and I'd really much rather drive a smaller 2-door, but the only option I'd be able to afford is a Roadster 2.0. Nobody else makes a high-performance EV coupe that's still in the low 6-figures. The Rimac Nevera is just way out of the question with its $2M price tag.
As far as reasons I want to avoid Tesla:
- Fit and finish concerns. My M3P was flawless, but I've seen people order a Model S Plaid (Their top-end $140K car) and it was riddled with glaringly obvious issues. I don't want to spend $200K on a Roadster and then still worry about potentially rejecting it at delivery because of finish issues.
- Elon Musk has grown to be a real piece of shit, to be quite blunt. I don't want to be associated with him if at all possible.
- I don't like where Tesla is headed with UX. Removing the stalks in favor of touch-sensitive buttons on the ~~wheel~~ yoke is not good UX.
- I'd like to simply avoid using such a controversial brand.
Even if I was going to buy a car, I wouldn't buy a Tesla. Everything I've seen suggests they are awful overpriced cars. Plus, I'm not giving any money to Melon Husk.
- Subpar support
- Expensive as a luxury brand, but it does not feel luxurious
- Touch panels
- Weird design decisions like the changing of the steering wheel, just to be unique but sacrifices usability.
- The immoral marketing of their lousy self driving
- Elon Musk
I don't have any faith in or desire for any manufacturer's autonomous driving features. I'm brand-agnostic and don't care if a car looks good (my current car's a 10-year-old Honda Fit). I tend to have more canine passengers on car rides than human, so rear seating is irrelevant (they're always folded down) and cabin luxury is futile (everything's covered in dog hair).
I'm a homeowner with my own garage in a moderate-sized city, a low-milage driver with good transit access in a relatively mild climate, and I have a vet and grocery within walking distance, so the car's mostly used for longer-distance dog-moving, cargo-moving, road trips, or to avoid rain. My longest round-trips are under 120 miles and decreasingly frequent, so range isn't an issue. Most of my round trips are under 40 miles.
Also, EV tech for cars seems to be too immature still to expect the same lifespan and reliability that I've gotten, and will probably continue to get, from the Fit. I simply don't see myself driving an EV built today for 10 years at <$400/year total maintenance cost like I've pulled off with the Fit. Even my total gas spend on the Fit has been <$700/year over its lifetime, and probably <$400/year over the last two years.
So for me to even consider a Tesla, it absolutely must:
- cost less than $30k; my Fit was $17k ($22k inflation-adjusted) new off the lot
- have physical controls for convenience options
- have easy entry/exit for my older dogs, particularly a low chassis and tall rear hatchback door
- have the same or better cargo capacity (57 ft3) as the Fit
- match or exceed competitors (or the already-10-year-old Fit!) on TCO over the next 10 years, assuming I continue to drive <4,000 miles/year
Even if this hypothetical Tesla pulls all of that off, it also has to beat my other options:
- Change nothing. Keep driving the Fit until it falls apart.
So far, inertia's been winning. Since the pandemic my total driving's dropped to under 4,000 miles/year and continues to drop. Gas prices, even at their worst earlier this year, never caused me to break a sweat. Even with its age the Fit is still in great shape thanks to the low milage, still gets 28/40mpg, and still has an utterly ridiculous resale value of $10-$17k locally thanks in part to Honda no longer selling them in the US in favor of god damned crossovers.
- Stop owning a car altogether. Sell the Fit and buy an ebike for shorter trips, a motorcycle for longer trips, rideshare when those or public transit won't work, rent a truck to move large cargo, and rent a pet-friendly RV for vacations and road-trips.
The money I'd save each month from switching from car to motorcycle insurance would cover extra delivery costs and rideshares. I already have a manual road bike, motorcycle license endorsement, and the gear for all-weather biking, and live in a relatively bike-friendly city. Buying both a cargo ebike and motorcycle would cost the same or less than any EV I'd buy. ($2-5k for the ebike, $12-20k for a Zero S or SR; hypothetically possible to sell the Fit, buy them, and come out net-zero.) I'd have lower total maintenance costs right up to the point where I fall off of either of them and have to deal with the US healthcare system, something I'd have to deal with anyway if I crashed my manual bike (or Fit, tbqh). I'd also get more exercise and outdoor time, and could convert more of my garage to a workshop/office.
- Buy a Chevy Volt EV 1LT, which I can literally buy today for $26,890. It has physical convenience controls, a low chassis with easy entry/exit for my older dogs, 57 ft3 rear cargo capacity, and about the same chance of randomly catching fire or otherwise failing for EV-specific reasons over the next 10 years. As a bonus, it's almost as ugly and boring as the Fit.
We did a 80 mile each way day trip to visit someone and bring them back and had to line up lunch in an area with no great food options so we could sit for the 30 minutes to get back up to 80%.
With it being cold in the midwest our advertised '280 range' or '180 range at 80%' never is even close to that.
It's like the olden days before really efficient ICE vehicles.
2. Don't need a car
3. Can't drive
Tbf a few years back I watched a whole thing on the Model 3 and rather liked the look of it and it's options. I've since seen a lot more about the low build quality and the inability to repair anything outside Tesla, that I'd have questions before buying one as well. And honestly having seen Elon's fast paced 'do the first dumb idea you have without thinking about it' approach to twitter, I'm not sure I really want any Tesla, for fear he might suddenly change features there as well.