Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past | Hacker News Reader

Japan was the future but it's stuck in the past

bbc.co.uk

24 pointsvijayr0233 comments

Japan is the future that we in the West will never get.

After almost 30 years of economic slowdown and demographic crisis Japan is still culturally cohesive, well functioning society with fairly high standards of living shared more or less equally. Not stuck and split by endless internal conflicts and violence..

Also Japanese economy could be divided into productive part (Toyota's etc.) and unproductive (Mom and Pap shop run by 75 year olds). And the former is increasing it's productivity every year.

I don't believe that in 25 years EU, China or US would be nowhere near levels of comfort and stability of today's Japan.

You seem to forget that Japan had at least 150 years of constant civil war. It's culturally cohesive because they force everyone into conformity.

There's a story about a homeless castaway happily living on a secluded island, until they've found him, send him over to the mainland and banned him from ever returning.

Which is probably why they have so many subcultures and emphasize on hobbies.

https://www.tokyoweekender.com/2022/07/obsessed-irwin-wong-j...

I wouldn't worry too much for them. I'd worry if I was Russia or China or North Korea if they are given a carte blanch for revival of militarism and left unchecked.

>It's culturally cohesive because they force everyone into conformity.

As did modern Germany, France, Italy, Romania, Spain etc. No European country is 100% homogenous. They each have regions that have little in common culturally with the country but they were assimilated by force.

This is in no way comparable. Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe. Not in schools, not at work, and not in general society. Definitely not to the level you'd experience in Japan.

>Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe

Not nearly as much now, but it was definitely enforced 100 to 50 or so years ago in most European countries to the point of being illegal to speak another language than the official local one and ethnic discrimination was rampant. Yes, also in schools and at work. See South Tyrol and Italy and there's other such examples in Europe. Conformity was definitely enforced.

Glossing over this dark past doesn't change the fact that it happened here as well.

France as well, even until very recently. The cancellation of the show about Lafayette and French Revolution in Puy-du-Fou is a good example none talk about publicly because politically unacceptable.

> Cultural conformity is not being enforced in Europe

Of course its being enforced, especially in non-Federal countries. The TV usually speaks one language and no dialects, the education system is controlled by the head of the State, the same goes for media entities usually controlled by people close to the government.

The difference is in the amount of zeal with which conformism is enforced. The social pressure to comform is ridiculously low in Europe and North America compared to most of the world.

That a country's outlets speaks the majority language is not in the same league.

I was thinking along the lines of gender roles, marrying late, having a different hair colour, or generally going against the flow, not the language TV shows are in.

> No European country is 100% homogenous

Hungary is close and in some way they have somewhat similar issues as Japan but to a lesser extent.

In Greece they also don't have minorities, not oficially anyway, other than the muslims in Western Greece, Armenians and some Jews.

> if they are given a carte blanch for revival of militarism and left unchecked.

Japanese militarism has been going on for quite a while on slow burner. They can assemble nukes in half no time, they have aircraft carriers called 'destroyers', and they've changed the doctrine to first strike in response to NorK's missile tests. We are rapidly falling into the abyss.

What I would challenge you on is this...why isn't it moving more forwards, it could still be growing, innovating and looking more into the future, it's population could and should be growing or at least quite stable, but it's not.

People are overworked, not having children [1], the education system isn't really optimal (favors rote learning over everything else) and there is a lot of loneliness.

I do agree, it's a good place, even a great place, I love it, but it could be much much better at the same time. Does it need to be better? Maybe not, that's hard to say.

What is a concern is the declining population, a lot of the stability comes from the hard working, financially conservative, older, dying generation of people and it's not getting replenished anytime soon. The country is holding up well, but IMO if you look carefully, things are aging in Japan and I don't see where the demand for new things, infrastructure, ideas etc is going to be coming from.

Honestly, people make comments about Japan like, it's harmonious, culturally cohesive and well functioning are seeing it from the outside, which, like everywhere else always looks a bit prettier. A lot of the harmony does come at the cost of people's inability to express themselves. There's a lot of "personal injuries" on the Tokyo subway, I have a feeling a little bit of that comes form repression.

I'm definitely not saying it's a bad place, I'm saying it's probably not dissimilar to many other places really, there are good aspect to it and there are bad. Mostly people think it's great because they don't and can't really understand it. Japanese language isn't easy to grasp and people rarely tell you what's on their mind even if you can speak to them.

I believe the discourse in the west is harder to cope with on a personal level, but it is and important part of democracy which I do feel is lacking in many part of the world, including Japan. I love the harmony I experience when visiting, but something inside tells me change is important, at least if only occasionally.

Interesting times ahead no doubt.

[1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Society/Japan-leads-world-...

As someone who just went through a 10 day process to get an eSIM on a recent long stay business trip I can relate to the sentiment in this article a bit too much. What I went through was honestly the most ridiculously broken outdated process via the most outdated, user hostile webform I've ever experienced. I am actually concerned for Japan after having been through it because I know many people there go through similar experiences quite often.

I told a colleague and he said he needed to transfer his license plates from another prefecture and he actually cried over how much of his time it took. About 3-4 full days of running around different offices.

I know this sounds mental but I almost felt like I'd end up in seriously dangerous depressive spiral over how much of my time it all sucked up and then I just felt depressed about all the people who work at the national carrier and their lives too. One day I was on the phone from 9am - 8pm trying to get the issues resolved.

I'm not sure when, if, how things will improve for Japan but I hope things change for the better sooner rather than later because there are, like everywhere a lot of remarkable people and things there as well.

I used esimdb before and it was perfect. Wouldn’t that work in Japan too! They have a lot of options https://esimdb.com/japan

That's cool but I needed a phone number for several months.

> dangerous depressive spiral over how much of my time it all sucked up

You should try the French administration - it's 100 times worse than that.

Can't speak for Japan, but recently in france I had to renew a document and was astonished when the relevant administration didn't live-up to its atrocious reputation and provided a smooth process. I'm sure it was a outlier and I was lucky.

Interesting the passage about the elaborate manhole covers. Just a few days ago there was a thread that showed how these elaborate manhole covers were made:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34423224

As I was watching the video I admired the relative craftsmanship that went into each one of those manholes, but I also couldn't help but feel that they were being over-processed. This BBC article helps me put some of those feelings into words.

The Japanese are very particular in how they do things in order to make their work perfect, from food to everything else. I watch bicycle building videos from all over the world. The most professional shop I've seen is Blue Lug from Japan.

I looked them up just now, and can't understand it. Don't they have rain? Don't they care about/produce bicycles for people who drive during all weather? These things look all like broken by design to me, because they lack mudguards and real porters/carriers for people who want to transport their groceries somewhere else than in a backpack, or a feeble basket mounted on the handlebar.

Cycling has its own subcultures. They like impractical, offbeat things like every other subculture. Same with cars, mechanical keyboards and fashion.

Heh! I like my https://deskthority.net/wiki/Marquardt_Mini-Ergo :-)

As I understand it, my Macbook butterfly keyboard makes me a heretic in that community.

Jeder soll nach seiner Façon selig werden.

( https://dictionary.reverso.net/german-english/Jeder+soll+nac... )

I know this community only from (very) far away. It just so happened that I got mine a long time ago, from a palette, in a clearance sale, and It seemed like it was made for me. And I've gotten so used to it, that I even modded it to be able to use it natively with PS/2 & USB instead of a chain of adapters. But it isn't perfect. Lacks some sort of trackball, pointer, touchpad where the cursorkeys are. Maybe scrollwheels. Maybe multimedia keys. But works for me. I even got spares after a loooong time, that's how much I like it :-)

Back to bicycles, I think it's the same with a frame which fits you, and you like the dynamics of it, all in all. Even though there may be ones which are better in a few single aspects, but much more expensive, while not lasting all that long, and have to be handled carefully.

One can obsess compulsively over such things. I don't care that much ;-) Except for usability as daily driver which gets out of my way.

Like clothing that fits, doesn't make noises when moving, mostly unobstrusive color, doesn't glow or glitter in the dark, and so on.

Like clothing that fits! That's a great analogy

Yes they do in fact have lots of rain being and island, especially in the munsoon season. Some of them have mudguards but usually mudguards are placed and removed as the weather dictates. The backpack is awful on a bike, you get sweaty at the back and then when you hit the cold you get back problems. The porter basket is an excellent addition. I use it for grocery getting and fishing.

There’s a YouTube channel that talks about these things. The most recent video is about Japanese postal service. https://www.youtube.com/@TheJapanChannelDcom

not sure what the point of this article is. it keeps jumping from one subject to another, and while the observations are mostly accurate, that does not mean you have anything meaningful to say.

What if the point was the observations? These are this persons thoughts after spending a decade in Japan. Having never lived in Japan, I found this article fascinating

That's pretty limited if all he has to share is random shower thoughts

The author said he did not expect Japan to change. But change is coming and the longer it is held off the greater the change will be.

pointless meandering article if you’re familiar with the situation at all.

Another day, another BBC article trying to shame japan for not accepting somali "refugees".

Why it is always Japan blamed and not China or other Asian countries?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com