Comment by gerggerg | Hacker News Reader

Comment by gerggerg | Hacker News Reader

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I don't agree. First, education levels among Foxconn employees are probably considerably lower than you can imagine. These people just don't fully understand how inhumane their jobs are or the lasting effects of the chemicals they work with and are probably directly lied to about it. Second they may already be owed money by Foxconn for overtime, healthcare, regular wages etc. and can't just outright quit out of fear of never seeing any of that money. Third there's a never ending supply of new workers, ignorant to the conditions in the factory, which pretty much nullifies their ability to bargain for rights. Fourth, according to the recent This American Life episode, THEY CAN BE LEGALLY PUNISHED FOR TRYING TO FORM UNIONS. I don't know how to stress the importance of that other than by raising my voice on the internet. HN doesn't have bolding.

TLDR:

They can't bargain. Plain and simple.

We have worker protections. If all that mattered was the free market then we wouldn't need them.

I completely relate to the emotion, in California we've had folks like Caesar Chavez organize to overthrow the exploitation of immigrant farm workers.

I'm saying that the article says they want more money. I'm sure there are lots of other things they want too but as I mentioned its very dangerous to assume anything when dealing with a culture and political climate that is so very different from one you are in or grew up in.

You point out that "Third there's a never ending supply of new workers, ..." That is, unfortunately, the economic force that is allowing these conditions to persist.

It suggests that one way to put pressure on Foxconn would be to cut off that supply through education and outreach to the people immigrating from the rural areas but I have no idea how that might be accomplished.

I agree that a long term strategy for improving working conditions involves access to quality education but I don't think that pertains to the issue being discussed nor is it very helpful to the people described in the article. The sad fact is these people are living their lives now and have virtually no bargaining power now. So they've taken to following the example set by the desperate measures of their former co-workers as a last ditch effort to eek out a fight. Perhaps the mass suicide was dis-genuine and they just wanted media attention. This to me is an indicator of what they feel they have to do to get a semblance of justice. Or that they genuinely have no idea how to stand up to their employer. An employer, mind you, that requires them to sign a contract stating that they will not commit suicide on the job. Think about that. Where would you be if you got paid $2 an hour to stand on your feet for 12 hours a day working with toxic chemicals without proper safety measures, having had signed a contract stating you wouldn't commit suicide, with no legal right to organize coworkers to even discuss how to improve working conditions, and don't have enough education to understand any of it other than your legs hurt, your hands won't stop shaking, and you haven't yet received any money for that overtime you put in to make electronics you'll never see people in your own country using.

wages: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/06/06/us-foxconn-china-i...

>That is, unfortunately, the economic force that is allowing these conditions to persist.

No, it's a government problem. An individual is not on equal footing with a group of individuals (e.g. a company). Therefor either the government must allow workers to unionize or it must enforce some level of sane working conditions.

If your "free market" allows companies to exploit people to the point that working slowly kills them and not working kills them quicker then I want nothing what-so-ever to do with it.

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