Comment by magic_hamster | Hacker News Reader

Comment by magic_hamster | Hacker News Reader

I think there never was stronger counterculture than today - but the platforms for this changed. A few decades ago an avant-garde film or student project could make ripples in the film industry and gain a cult following. However, I think that anyone under 20 (possibly under 30) sees cinema as far less important than the previous generation. YouTube (and TikTok) stars became bigger than movie stars, and more young people can tell you who the top streamer is for Valorant than who played Luke Skywalker in Star Wars.

The "criteria" mentioned in that post assumes the importance of cinema, radio and television is static, but in fact all of traditional content mediums are just a small detail in the peripheral vision of a younger audience, and they are pushing their values and ideas harder than it was ever possible before. There's culture and counterculture online. It's just not taking place in the same space as before, leaving the old mediums to corporations trying to maximize profits.

Kids and teens don't dream about changing the world through cinema anymore, but rather Twitch, YouTube or TikTok, or if they're really ambitious, a game.

Edit: forgot to mention Discord.

I think there never was stronger counterculture than today

I disagree. Can you expand on your claim?

YouTube and TikTok are not countercultural, even if some users are using those platforms for genuine countercultural creative acts. By definition, a social media "influencer" with millions of followers is not countercultural.

YouTube and TikTok are not counterculture but they are the platforms where counterculture happens.

> a social media "influencer" with millions of followers is not countercultural.

A social media "influencer" could be more important to a younger audience than other mediums, meaning this is the "culture" they will try to counter.

Edit: narrowed it down a little.

" they are the platforms where counterculture happens"

And where exactly can I find them?

Trough the corporate algorithm, that doesn't even let me rewind a video?

Counterculture exists and sone of those expose their lifestyle and projects on these plattforms for fame and money, but that culture surely does not "live" on those plattforms.

> Trough the corporate algorithm, that doesn't even let me rewind a video?

It's worse than that. You used to have to "sell out" to corporate interests before your countercultural cache evaporated. Most YouTube creators "sell out" to advertisers the second they start their channel because getting any revenue on YouTube requires following YouTube's rules. And these rules are getting increasingly draconian with swearing now being sort-of banned. Also forget remixing existing cultural artifacts like older countercultural movements because that's just asking for an automated DMCA strike.

If you stick with the comparison they were making to cinema this is like saying a movie star is not countercultural and you'd be right. The influencers with millions of followers are not countercultural, they've broken into the mainstream and are busily selling out for money and fame. At the same time you can have countercultural activities happening on those platforms and the "true" revolutionaries will actively eschew money from sponsors and ads and will sabotage any mainstream attempts to make them famous by trolling the normies that jump on the band wagon or by intentionally poisoning their content with things that go far beyond the pale.

I think that by definition, true counterculture isn't going to happen on social media platforms.

Is culture music or is it composed of individual songs and artists? Is culture literature or is it some set of books and authors? Is culture film or is it the movies and directors? Is culture the internet or is it the content and creators?

A social media influencer with millions of followers can still be unknown to people outside of that bubble.

My mom has no idea who PewDiePie is.

Are you suggesting that PewDiePie is countercultural?

The hippies weren't tiny and they were the quintessential counter culture. You can have millions of followers and the average cat on the street wouldn't know who you are.

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