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Comment by wpm | Hacker News Reader

Wow someone really ought to let the rest of the world outside of America know.

Outdoor dining sucks in most North American cities because you get to eat right next to a bunch of loud, polluting car traffic zooming by a few feet away. Last time I ate outside in Chicago I could reach out and touch an idling minivan. No thank you. New York City keeps their garbage, most of the time, again, within touching or at the very least smelling distance of outdoor eateries. The city is loud because it's overrun with automobile traffic. Who the hell would want to eat in that environment?

Perhaps we could work on making the rest of our cities look and feel like the parks that are usually popular places to bring lunch, since, you know, they're quiet and feel safe.

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> Wow someone really ought to let the rest of the world outside of America know.

It's exactly the same as you describe in many European cities. When you pack houses next to each other and stack apartments on top one of another, which is the definition of a city, you get concrete. Lots of concrete.

Sure some European cities may have historical city center totally car free but most restaurants have outdoor terrace on regular streets, complete with cars, lots of people passing by, noise (not just from cars) and dog poo.

I agree with you one point: it's not a relaxing environment to eat.

My first time outside North America was Madrid. I loved eating outside at all these restaurants that were on cobblestone roads that saw almost no traffic.

But I also didn’t enjoy how loud it was at 11pm with there being many patios near my apartment, given I hadn’t yet adopted their culture of a later evening.

In many but definitely not a general trend that you can't find a nice spot to eat outdoors. Even in very crowded cities like Paris you have tons of options to eat by the street and enjoy a pleasant experience.

Barcelona, Stockholm, Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid, Lisbon, Porto, Copenhagen, so on and so forth are all cities I thoroughly enjoy to eat outdoors during summers, in almost any part of the cities, and not only in their "historical centres".

It's definitely not even close to the same issue as in North American cities.

Dublin (and really Irish cities in general are a bit more mixed). Because of restrictions on smoking indoors in the 2000s, many restaurants and bars have had time to build outdoor areas pre-covid. In some of those, where the outdoor area was nice enough (e.g not on the roadside, not a little cubbyhole which used to be just a yard for bins that was converted, and sufficiently spaced that smoke from the smokers is unlikely to reach you), you'd have non-smokers also choose to use the outdoor area.

I think those places that were already set up for this before the pandemic, along with those who have managed to create such an experience, will continue with a slight uptick in outdoor dining.

Those who just put some tables and chairs on the pavement in front of the store will not, especially amongst increasing calls to reclaim that space for pedestrians and cycle lanes.

Car noise is the dominating noise in cities: https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8

One thing I’ve noticed in tightly packed cities like Paris is that neighborhoods in the city proper are very quiet because there’s little car traffic. If there is traffic, it’s light enough to not make it through one tightly packed row of units. Contrast to any American city, and most downtown areas will be within hearing distance of a large freeway.

This problem isn’t solved globally, but there are loads of cities that are very pleasant to be in outside. That’s not the case in North America, mostly because of car traffic. (Space inefficient, so less room for nice things, loud, and dangerous)

> Wow someone really ought to let the rest of the world outside of America know.

Or even Southern California. Turns out when you have good weather and properly planned spaces for dining, it's quite popular.

This article reeks of New Yorkers being obsessed with the smell of their own farts assuming if they have a problem, everyone else must too. Which is funny because they also had plenty of established popular outdoor dining well before the pandemic, it was just on the rooftops.

Doesn't matter how nice you make it, I'm not eating outside during the cold months. It's freaking cold, and those outdoor propane heaters are not only marginally effective, they're a clear and obvious environmental insult.

In Slovenia coffee shops give out blankets during the cold months. They’re bery popular with smokers.

This happened in the UK during lockdown as well, when you were allowed to meet for dinner outside but not inside, a lot of restaurants suddenly sprouted outdoor heating lamps and a lot of blankets.

I’m sitting outside my home right now wishing I had a blanket for smoking in the cold.

gotta say, as someone made weak by the bay area climate and now intolerant of cold, this sounds awesome. except the smokers.

It depends on the food. I probably wouldn't want to do it for sushi or a salad, but I love eating ramen outside in the snow when it's around 32F / 0C. The same could go for poutine or hot chocolate or many other dishes.

If there's some sort of covered space or a heater then even colder temperatures might be nice.

Seriously! This is one reason I've never liked the plague era designs.

I constantly feel like I'm about to be run over...

I doubt there would be many restaurants left if you get rid of the trucks delivering the food / picking up the trash and the Ubers dropping patrons off.

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