Gambling - mathematically, you're going to lose over time. This is why blackjack, the lottery, and sports betting are gambling. Every system that has payouts based on what people put in, minus a cut for the bookie, is in this category.
Investing - the mathematical odds are in your favor. Stocks, real estate, etc., as the payouts are based on the ongoing creation of value.
- Some sports bettors apply advanced analytics and win consistently. We can still sensibly use the expression ”sports gambling.”
- Conversely, people ”invest” in crypto schemes that are sure to lose
The conceptual distinction you’re drawing may be a useful one, but I don’t think it perfectly follows the contours of the words ”gambling” and ”investing.” These words are used in different contexts for random historical reasons. On average, the contexts in which we would say ”investing” are a lot safer than the contexts in we would say ”gambling,” but it’s not totally cut and dry.
Technically, their investment EV is far higher than stocks and bonds. Could be on the order of 2% per day, if it wasn’t for those meddling back offs and limits.
1. limit the amount of bets
2. using multiple decks
3. reshuffling the decks long before the deck runs out
making the return so miniscule as to be a waste of time.
1. Bet sizes can be up to around ~$10k with a 1% - 3% EV per hand.
2. Doesn't matter too much, standard 6 or 8 deck shoes still are 0.5% EV at true count 2 and +0.5% thereafter.
3. This matters more, but most counters eye dealers with 70%+ penetration of all the decks, which still averages to the +EV above.
Returns are ~$50/hr at your average casino but the sky is the limit for having mid 6 figure bankroll and being a smooth social engineer with $5k bets at high roller tables. Some hands are +$50-$250 per.
Gambling? There's no house in poker (cept for the fees for the dealer, which i would assume is fixed).
For some people who dedicate their lives to it, it's a game of skill, and an investment when played against lesser mortals.
If you're betting on the players in the game, then it's clearly gambling.