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Comment by lakomen | Hacker News Reader

I feel like I'm thrown back to the 80s, all this military and fear mongering and propaganda and war.

> I feel like I'm thrown back to the 80s, all this military and fear mongering and propaganda and war.

I can't imagine what sort of lens you were using to view the last thirty years, such that those were the peaceful, propaganda-free times and all this shit with balloons is troubling.

The 80s is too far back, probably 2003 was the last peak, but since it became clear Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters the war propaganda complex was muted for years. Remember when Romney said Russia was the US's biggest threat in 2012, and Obama mocked him? Now both parties are back in on the war machine with Ukraine and Taiwan, and the propaganda's running at levels we haven't seen for twenty years.

> since it became clear Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters the war propaganda complex was muted for years

If it weren't for propaganda, we would have found the will to exit those wars well over a decade ago.

Leaving Iraq earlier would have been fucked up. We would wrecked the country, destabilized it, raised the problem of sectarian warfare, and then bounced. We still basically did that, but at least helped it with ISIS before leaving.

As it is, we arguably owe it more.

You can see what the result of leaving Afghanistan has been. We should have devoted more resources to nation building there.

Not sure what you think is "propaganda" about concerns about Russian aggression in Ukraine or about China's evils.

Even Afghanistan wasn't a matter of propaganda so much as other flaws/isaues, such as overreactivity and hubris.

For all its flaws, I'd take a democracy over the Soviets in the 80s, or CCP/North Korea today. I can't imagine what the world would have looked like if the Soviets had won the cold war, or if the CCP wins the next.

Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.

-John Kenneth Galbraith

That's funny but under one of these systems the people have a hope of fixing the ineptitude and corruption. Under the other, ehhh...

cute quote, but meaningless. ask anyone who lived in a communist/ex-soviet state which is better. also why [over 100,000 citizens of east germany](https://www.berlin.de/mauer/en/history/victims-of-the-wall/) tried to escape, many dying in their attempts. its without a doubt which is better.

Most counterfactual fiction in this space has the repressive state continuing to be repressive and normalising "othering" of <bad people> and it's a well trodden path. Robert Harris, Len Deighton, Ira Levin, Yevgeny Zamyatin. Harry Harrison, Ward Moore.

Winning under MAD is moot. There undoubtedly will be losers at scale.

Historians differ if forcing the soviets to bankruptcy was necessarily better than a rapprochement. It worked, sure but like the end of ww1 gave birth to stab in the back rightist views of history, the FSU is now a kleptocracy and minor fights in Africa and the Middle east are now entrenched social cancers.

Afghanistan and the role of US funds to Pakistan on the region. Not a net benefit all told.

I'm Russian and I am of the same opinion.

95% of humanity would also, if they were given a fair choice and knowledge of all those systems.

Never mind the 80s, I feel like I'm thrown back into the 1950s with all this talk of surveillance balloons. What kind of oddball nonsense is China playing. Haven't they heard of satellites?

Both parties seems to be ready for a war. At least, the US seems to want it. Time to prop the propaganda agenda and psychologically prepare the minions.

Except this time, no one under 40 seems to give a shit.

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