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Comment by matwood | Hacker News Reader

I'm glad someone brought up BJJ. I'm ~4 years in, and it works exactly this way. The day to day doesn't seem like you're learning that much. In fact, I don't even feel like I know that much after 4 years. But, when I roll with high belts now many have to really work to get me. And like you said, if I go against someone who has never grappled before, I can gently fold them up without breathing hard.

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I am at 4 years. Lay off for COVID. Just starting to get the hang of some things and present problems to higher belts. The interesting thing to me, once I can funnel someone into a dilemma game I know well, there isn't as much difference as I thought there would be between upper belts. I would say tougher black belts have seen it all before and give a really hard fight at each decision point in the attack tree, and can often just escape if technique is a little lose, but it isn't insanely different. I know how to fix things and make it harder every time I find a little gap like that now and they are little gaps. I still just get beat up most of the time, heh, but when things work they really work as I implement more of the game I like. I think that is an interesting place in skill development. Not an expert, but not a novice.

I definitely still get beat up most of the time. Also, within black belts there can be a lot of variation. But to your point, you have enough tools now that if you execute properly and lead a high belt down your path, you could catch them. That simply would never happen until 3-4 years in (and I'm not counting life long wrestlers who show up with 'no' BJJ experience).

A big turning point for me was when I would lose and could walk backwards the whole roll in my head and see the root error. BJJ is a lot like chess in this way. When you start you just get beat and see the move that beat you. As you get better you see the chain of events that lead to the finish.

Yeah, I am not great at visualizing 3d space, but I have thought enough about BJJ that I can map it all back out as well now. Plus you learn the heuristics. Usually it is something small. Lost a grip, allowed a grip, let something get loose in your half guard that lead to being cross faced, passed, etc. Often I know right away now when something is bad, though it takes a little work to figure out exactly how it happened (upper belts are sneaky like that) and unforced errors happen as well, at least those are easier to figure out :)

How do wrestlers fare at BJJ? Do they throw you for a loop so to speak because their moves are so unpredictable and they have advanced grapple reflexes?

Nicky Rodriguez, a life long wrestler was beating world class black belts in only a year of training. We had a D1 wrestler join our gym and after the first week was awarded a blue belt (usually takes 2-3 years).

They won’t know many submissions, and initially are more susceptible to exposing their back (in wrestling being on your back is the worst possible outcome where in jiu jitsu it’s an offensive position), but at the end of the day grappling is grappling.

Nicky Rod is also a big exception. D1 wrestlers are a small % of all wrestlers. Most wrestlers I encounter are like good white belts, but they have a ton of bad habits like you mentioned. Wrestlers do alright in BJJ though, for sure. They have a good sense of bodies and weight, though I have seen it hinder some wrestlers who stay in their comfort zone and never branch out, eventually losing out to folks who focus more on BJJ technique.

Yeah that’s fair, the same can be said about really strong people who only rely on strength. They seem really good initially but 5 years later they are still just trying their Americanas from inside someone’s closed guard.

Wrestlers aren't that unpredictable, and are usually more controlled than an untrained person off the street. Depending on how much wrestling experience someone has, it can definitely start them out at a higher level. But, they still have a lot of blind spots - particularly if you put a gi on them.

I'm also doing BJJ; due to <life stuff> I haven't been able to be consistent. I would say I'm about at the 1-year equivalent mark though. Hard part for me is that I'm big, so it's hard to tell if I can fold up beginners because I'm big or because I've learned, though I'm sure it's a combination of the two.

Just play guard or give up some position to smaller folks and see how it goes. I was pretty tired on Sunday so I just flopped around playing defense and subbing the white belts from bad places during Randori :)

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