Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwntoday | Hacker News Reader

There's really no winning for Apple here. Whether they limit cable types or provide a disclaimer, people will go to their stores and complain "This phone is broken, it won't connect to my computer!". They'll train their employees to explain "Sorry not all USB-C cables are capable of transmitting data" much like they had to train them to say "No that iPad uses USB-C, you can't use a lightning cable to charge it".

No one will ever blame themselves, or the shoddy cables, they will always blame Apple.

View on HN

True, but intentionally making USB-C less functional doesn't seem likely to solve the problem you describe either.

In addition to whatever "normal" confusion there is around USB-C, now you'll have people wondering why their expensive Thunderbolt 4/USB 3.x cable that works as a Thunderbolt 4/USB 3.x cable for every other device is behaving like it's 2005 when plugged into a brand new iPhone.

If they add some custom authentication chip to limit compatibility however, Apple will be to blame if things don't work.

Not really.

If you purchase a cable from somewhere else and it doesn't work with your iPhone, Apple will say "no idea, it's not our cable".

If your Apple custom USB-C cable doesn't work with your Android phone, Apple will say "no idea, it's not our device".

Apple only guarantees that an Apple iPhone can transfer data through an Apple (or Apple certified) USB-C cable. Nothing more, nothing less. They don't have to manufacture their cables to be compliant with USB-IF standards as the EU law is only about charging and not about data transfer.

Well Apple can say whatever they want, that doesn't change the fact they're to blame.

The reason it wouldn't work would be that they put in hardware to prevent it from working.

Of course that's their fault.

The EU laws are to blame. The law should have been "the manufacturer will implement USB-IF compliant charging and connectivity" instead of "there will be a port that has the same form factor as USB-C that can be used for charging".

I believe the second revision of the law will be to this effect, which Apple will comply in 2030.

The charging part is mandated though, the EU law mandates USB-PD support.

Imagine where consumer electronics could be if they didn't have to be designed for the lowest common denominator.

> Imagine where consumer electronics could be if they didn't have to be designed for the lowest common denominator.

I don't need to imagine, I can just look at the bajillion USB-C standards and versions that were not "designed for the lowest common denominator."

It got to the point where almost monthly we have posts on HN that discuss the clusterfuck that is USB-C naming standards, as well as giant guides on how to buy the correct USB-C cable without losing your mind. I bet you can easily find people ranting about it in the comment section of almost every thread that mentions USB-C on HN, even this one (and if not, just give this thread a bit more time).

At this point, I prefer to not try encouraging more of those fantasies of standards (like USB-C) "not designed for the lowest common denominator" becoming closer to reality.

Imagine where consumer electronics could be if they didn't have to be designed for the lowest common denominator.

In the 1970's, since your "lowest common denominator" is the people who fund these things.

You mean we don't produce enough garbage and should be producing much more?

When I read lowest common denominator, I think "backwards compatible".

Which has been hugely beneficial to technology. Imagine if WiFi standards weren't backwards compatible.

If technology wasn't built to the lowest common denominator, whilst you might accelera progress, you would do it at the cost of convenience and ease of functionality.

"No that iPad uses USB-C, you can't use a lightning cable to charge it".

As an iPad pro owner, I can confirm that not every USB-C cable or charging brick or USB outlet can charge an iPad either, and there's no shady MFi business involved. USB-C is a mess. If you had 5 USB-C cables and a lightning cable before and you were mad about that, you're going to have 6 USB-C cables now. One cable for everything is a myth/fantasy. My Quest 2 needs a special USB-C LINK cable. My monitor needs a special USB-C cable that can do 4K HDMI at 120hz(not all of them can!). My eGPU needs a USB-C cable with thunderbolt 3/4.

This comment seems delusionally weird-world to me.

Yes there are different USB-C cables. Official ones all support at least 5Gbps USB3 and 60W charging. Unofficial ones sometimes dump the USB3 and only have USB2.0 connections, which is a messy complication, but it's advertised pretty clearly from what I've seen.

There is so much fear-mongering going on, to convince folks USB-C is evil & awful & horrible. It mostly just works. You don't need a lot of cables: you need a regular USB-C cable and one expensive 40Gbps cable for special purposes.

I don't believe it's fear mongering to accurately point out that the convenience of mandating USB-C is oversold using real examples from devices I own. Ultimately, people end up needing device specific cables or permanently connected cables with specific features.

Another example: A gaming laptop that can be charged via USB-C at 100W PD but needs its own 240W power brick with proprietary tip to take full advantage of the GPU. If "USB-C charging" were a selling point I'd be disappointed.

That's already a problem with USB-C: try to charge a laptop with a small phone charger: if it doesn't provide enough power, it won't charge. Because it fits doesn't mean that it works.

Isn't this more limited to the end of the cable pumping out the volts? Take that same "small phone charge" and connect the cable to a bigger adapter and it should work.

It doesn't really matter in terms of support requests, it is equally confusing. Instead of an intuitive "it doesn't fit, so it won't work", USB-C forces the users to understand what they are plugging. Some are obvious of course (it probably won't charge if you plug a keyboard), but the chargers are not.

But yeah, at least the cables can be reused. And people will learn :)

> No one will ever blame themselves, or the shoddy cables, they will always blame Apple.

No one blames Apple when their non-MFI lightning cable stops working. Apple trained their customers to only trust accessories purchased from Apple stores. Even for non-electrical items such as cases or screen protectors. Don't worry, Apple will be fine.

Yes, Apple will be just fine.

I buy lightning cables directly from Apple. They cost 2-3x as much as generic ones on Amazon but last 5-10x as long. Meanwhile my kids have iPads that are so old they have home buttons and lightning ports, yet still work great while all their cousins have Kindle Fires that are pieces of junk that get replaced yearly.

And of course Apple gives me free delivery of the cables within 2-3 days (Apple Store a few towns over) while even with Amazon Prime I’m waiting sometimes a week for a cable or whatever to be drop shipped from far away.

I’m years away from having to deal with whatever BS happens with these USB-C cables, but I bet by that time the market will have already killed the decent 3rd parties and segmented things into two categories - junk and Apple.

My ye olde iPad 2 is still in use, even though the screen is cracked and the OS hasn't updated in god knows how many years.

Meanwhile I've got a few fancy Nokia Win10 tablets that are literal trash (OS stopped updating) and a pile of Android tablets that can't even display a web page properly. All newer than the iPad 2.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com