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Comment by bradchris | Hacker News Reader

So what about Bachelor and Baccalaureate both being words that have their pre-Latin roots in Arabic: Bihaqq Al-riwayatt (“the right to restate the learning to somebody else“).

Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition.

The medieval Enlightenment and subsequent Renaissance was huge for Europe, yes, but just as important to realize today is that a lot of it was taking heavy inspiration from other cultures and regions and “Europeanizing” it and then calling it their own (I.E. a cultural exchange)

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> Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition.

This particular "fact" is in error unless you believe Medieval Christian monks copied Arabic dress. Academic dress in the US derives from Oxford and Cambridge, which was developed from extremely common clerical garb of the Middle Ages. Arabic dress is not necessarily black, but also white and dyed colors, are shaped differently than academic dress and have a trim never seen in academic dress. The two types of dress have origins distinct from each other. They may both belong to a larger category of robes, but the similarity ends there.

> Or the fact

Muslims are just as capable as Christians at promoting theories with very little evidence to support their arguments.

Both of your assertions are unproven theories, with the evidence against them: bachelor originally meant a young knight who followed another (though the etymology before that is uncertain), and academic robes derive from similar (European) mediaeval clerical and secular clothing.

There's a scene in My Big Fat Greek Wedding where the father says that the etymology of all English words can be traced back to Greek[1]. When someone challenges him with the word "Kimono," he pauses for a second, and then concocts a semi-plausible sounding explanation about how the word evolved from a Greek word.

A comedy, but I think it does reflect how a lot of people can be so impressed by their own culture that they end up spinning fictional narratives about it. For example, I was surprised to find that a common myth among Germans was that the USA almost had German become its official language, and German only lost out by a single vote.

Pride in one's culture isn't a bad thing, but too much of it can definitely lead people to believe some very questionable claims.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXt0VCPKfQ4

> There's a scene in My Big Fat Greek Wedding

And there is linguistics, a science that studies language including etymology.

I mean, I don’t think anyone here doubts that linguistics exists. The point was rather that fake etymologies also exist, and can be extremely common. As other replies have noted, it doesn't look like there's evidence that the word "Baccalaureate" comes from the Arabic "Bihaqq Al-riwayatt," and there seems to be a high likelihood that this is a fake etymology.

The Oxford English Dictionary even points out the fake etymology for bachelor meaning a laurel wreath, and says it's just an old pun.

> For example, I was surprised to find that a common myth among Germans was that the USA almost had German become its official language, and German only lost out by a single vote.

That myth does exist, but I do not think that it is a belief commonly held by Germans (i.e. people living in Germany, not referring to those US citizens tracing their heritage to the Fatherland here). I heard about it only long after crossing the pond. I rather think it's spread by people interested in German language/German culture albeit living in the USA. And I don't think anyone takes it too seriously.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-german-vote/

EDIT: I stand corrected: it's not only known in Germany, but was apparently first spread there in 1847: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhlenberg-Legende

I assumed it was common because I've run into different Germans who brought up the myth to me, and were surprised I didn't know about it (treating it as common knowledge). But it's certainly possible the people I've known aren't a great representation of the general population.

Funny I heard the same thing about the US but it was French that lost by one vote.

True, but let me give you a counterexample. In India ,a lot of 'modern' liberal historians promote hating own culture, history and the roots denigrating Hinduism and its scriptures as origin of all things bad such as casteism. This has surprisingly led a lot of neutral folks more to take a tougher stance of defending own culture even though we do not necessarily practice it to the letter like some groups.

Battle of ideologies, groups, regions and culture is as old as history and does not seem like it will ever completely die down. We need a more hybrid understanding where we evolve with time and apply modern lens to historical ideas carefully. Without ideological pride in Christianity, white superiority I doubt most of the European countries would've had been the colonizing superpowers they became controlling most of the world.

> In India, a lot of 'modern' liberal historians promote hating [their] own culture, history and [roots,] denigrating Hinduism and its scriptures as [the] origin of all things bad

Change "Hinduism" into some other word and you have a pretty general description of liberal historians in most Western countries.

This might be an imperialist perspective, but I'm guessing India imported this cultural tradition from them. :/

> So what about Bachelor and Baccalaureate both being words that have their pre-Latin roots in Arabic

What evidence do you have for this extraordinary claim?

> Or the fact that ceremonial graduation garb in the EU and US, from the robes to the caps, is also based in Arab tradition.

This is also an unfounded claim. University garb is derived from monstic order garb, which in turn is from early Nicean period monk tradition. This long predates your source.

Wiktionary states the following for "baccalaureate":

From French baccalauréat, from Medieval Latin baccalaureatus, from Latin baccalaureus, an alteration of baccalārius (“young man aspiring to knighthood”), to resemble bacca lauri (“laurel berry”) (the ancient symbol of victory). Compare bachelor.

For "baccalaureus":

Alteration of baccalārius, influenced (by folk etymology) by Latin bacca ("berry") and laurea ("laurel") due to the fact that graduates wore laurel crowns filled with berries in order to represent the fruit of their study. Perhaps of Celtic origin, from Gaulish *bakalakos, itself borrowed from Latin baculum (“stick”).[1]

No Arabic roots here.

Folks on HN sometimes have very unusual beliefs but that was definitely eyebrow raising.

Yeah, it is ridiculous to believe "baccalaureate" could have originated from "one who may teach others". It is far more plausible that this word originated from "stick" or "berry".

Ah, so the robes are Turkish, then?

That link you gave for Bihaqq Al-riwayatt was very interesting but not conclusive imho.

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