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Ad2: Every single real world java project I have seen used hibernate (ORM) with flyway. I never ever seen any project in production where some underlying tech would be deleting tables autonomously.

Ad1: People do debug ORMs, actually. Including queries effectivity.

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Ad2 -> I've run into lots of hibernate apps. They also tend to use Spring, and the team often gets lost trying to figure out which one is the cause of the problem. It's usually both.

Hibernate and Prisma migrations will delete tables if you allow them to.

Ad1 -> I'm sure they do...but usually they call in a DBA, who basically says "this is a disaster" then recommends that they refactor everything because their database schema is fucked up because it's based on some weird object hierarchy instead of RDBMS principle.

I dont find neither of your responses consistent with reality. First, database administrators do not debug ORM. Second, it does not take specialist to debug those, developers debug those. Third, recommendation is rarely "refactor everything". Usually it is adding an index, change the query or some other minor tweak. Fourth, "weird object hierarchy instead of RDBMS principle" does not even mean anything.

Fifth, spring has nothing to do with database whatsoever. Sixth, every production code I have ever seen used flyway.

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