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Comment by janmarsal | Hacker News Reader

I remember when I was a teen I started noticing how the nanny state had managed to remove all the old swings I used to play with and replaced them with some tiny and safe swings that no one even uses anymore. Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school all of a sudden. I'm glad there's at least some backlash to this nonsense.

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> Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school all of a sudden.

Given how many accidents happen on the way to school ("Schulwegunfälle", yes we have a dedicated word for it), it's absolutely necessary. 62k accidents in 2021, and 16 dead kids [1].

A large part of the cause is how absurdly car-centric our cities are - and yet, we're harmless compared to the US.

[1] https://www.dguv.de/de/zahlen-fakten/schuelerunfallgeschehen...

It's getting better, at least in Berlin.

Besides, the quality of the drivers in Germany is far better than in the US in my experience.

> 16 dead kids

of course every preventable death is too much and we should be aiming at zero...but 16 doesn't seem that much? I would have guessed more for sure.

In the last few years, the residential street where I live had multiple accidents caused by inattentive or plain racing drivers. One child ended up in hospital for weeks after being run over by a speeding car, a woman ended up dead after being run over by a lorry, and from my window I can see dangerous behavior from motorists alllll the time. Not good if you have three schools, (at least) two kindergartens and a sports area used by all of them.

The problem is, the street is fucking wide - it used to be the supply road for a beer factory and only got developed into pure residential and schools zoning two decades ago, and that seems to invite people to not give a fuck.

It does seem a little hypocritical to follow up 'should aim for zero children dead from being ran over by vehicles' with 'but 16 is fine'

I don't think so. I would have said the same about other statistics. In the end it defies my intuition, which is interesting given that the possibility of getting run over is pretty present in every day life of many children. You have to keep in mind that zero is pretty much impossible because the risk is present all long as we drive, so we should aim for zero but won't get to zero.

Then we are not actually aiming for zero. I don't think it is wise to engage in such blatant sophistry when discussing public policy.

of course you're aiming for zero. But you can't just wish it, there are constraints that arise from our reality. It's all a story of risks and costs, from crossing the street, driving a bicycle to using electricity. You can even die from the flu. In the end dying is unfortunately part of living and in some way unavoidable. A little bit of risks repeated a lot goes a long way.

Calling my comment sophistry is a little bit dramatic I think ;) especially considering you started this argument by twisting my statement about 16 dead kids being fine

public policy should be rational and evidence based

If we aim for zero (no matter what) society grinds to screeching halt. Not even considering constitutional aspects.

Especially the Western societies should get back to a healthy risk perception. In my opinion (I live in Germany) we've gone overboard.

16 is sad and very unfortunate.

There is a massive outcry and countries passing anti-constitutional laws aimed to protect women that are victims of domestic violence with similar casualty rates.

Maybe we should let kids vote so politicians pay some attention to them.

accident is not the preferred term considering people intentionally drive the way we do

https://laist.com/news/car-crash-accident-traffic-violence-l...

"Absolutely necessary" is your personal opinion. I, for one, disagree with that.

'Dedicated word' in German is a bit of a tricky concept:

'Schulwegunfälle' => schul + weg + un + fall = 'school' + 'way' + 'bad' + 'happening'.

Technically it's a single word, but composed of separate, composable parts which make logical sense when combined together.

> Children even started wearing yellow safety vests to school all of a sudden

Ban cars around schools. Ironically, the danger to kids walking to school is other parents driving their kid to school (a bit stressed, over the limit and probably on their phone).

Things only gotten safer over the last 50 years and every kid walked to school in the 60's,70's & 80's but now the majority are carted in very large SUVs. Something changed and it's not safety. I'd also add that they walked to school without parental supervision pretty much from kindergarten forward. I think most parents today would have a heart attack if their 2nd grader walked to school alone (even though they likely did)

What state manages playground equipment?

Many, if not most, public playgrounds are maintained by the city or municipality in Germany. Here in a larger city they are checked and cleaned weekly.

So not the state?

Depends on your definition of state. If you really want to dig into it:

The country, Germany, or a federal state like Bavaria, likely not directly but indirectly, due to how our tax system works. Different entities collect different taxes, but the cities and municipalities get a certain percentage of wage and sales tax for example. Often those taxes are not bound to be used for a certain purpose.

But also we have city-states liked Berlin or Hamburg, and those directly fund and maintain their playgrounds.

“The state” is a generic term that refers to the government, local, provincial, or larger.

I'd suggest it's not typically thought of as including local government. It is a peculiarly overloaded term though, particularly if you live in a country where "state" is a key governmental/administrative division! In the usage here - "nanny state" - I'd agree it can include local government and indeed even organisations operating below that level (it might just be a single school board making "nanny state" decisions).

I think it very much is thought of as inclusive of local government, at least in countries that aren't federal.

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