Comment by jballanc | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jballanc | Hacker News Reader

I think anyone whose opinion of Steve Jobs is changed by this knowledge needs to take a good look in the mirror and ask if they are not the hypocrite. Jobs always was a consumate businessman. Before Apple, even, he was scheming his way through a job, getting Wozniak to do his work and going back on his word to split profits.

But isn't that what America is all about? Aren't your shoes, clothes, electronics, etc. made by low wage workers at companies run by men and women who are willing to do anything for an extra dollar? Isn't that capitalism? Isn't that their "fiduciary duty to the shareholders"?

In the world of engineering, engineers are a resource just as oil is a resource for an oil company. Do you also get angry when oil companies hire lobbyists to wine-and-dine politicians until they give favorable exploration rights on federal lands to those companies? How is this any different, morally?

Ultimately, the really hard question is: would we have the iPod, iPhone, MacBook Air, iPad if Jobs had not done what he did?

You're invoking a tired ends justifies the means argument for ... consumer devices? Not societal survival, not space travel, not some other grand enterprise, but ... iPods?

I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm merely pointing out that there is a mythos surrounding Jobs that he was some sort of design god or product messiah. The only thing he ever was was a businessman. If your opinion of him changes knowing that he colluded to keep his cost of engineering low (much the same as he manipulated the market for flash memory to keep those prices low), then you probably didn't pay enough attention in the first place.

Of course, that's the danger in a cult of personality, isn't it?

Wait, what? Are you seriously saying that it is ok b/c of what got created?

I can't really fathom that is what you are saying. Personally, I've never bought into Jobs' cargo cult following. I've always thought the dude was a bit shifty and, frankly, an asshole. I hope history remembers him that way instead of saying "everything was ok because of the ipod". So, I guess I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are NOT saying Jobs is a good guy and everything is ok...but if you are, shame on you.

"Do you also get angry when oil companies hire lobbyists to wine-and-dine politicians until they give favorable exploration rights on federal lands to those companies? "

Yes, this does anger me, what is your point? I think a lot of people are angered by this, however this issue being discussed here is a bit "closer to home" in that we are probably more empowered to do something this issue than that of corruption in political lobbying.

The right to petition is enshrined in the First Amendment; if you don't like its excesses you'll need to start by changing the Constitution with a new amendment.

Its the right to freedom of speech, not the right to bribe politicians

A great many of us actually do get annoyed at that behavior, and do get annoyed at lobbying.

EDIT: Removed inflammatory remark.

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