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Comment by ausp | Hacker News Reader

I'm one of the no-license London populace, and travel more frequently than most. I don't find that it has limited me at all. On the occasions when I absolutely need a car instead of the existing options, taxis are available.

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That seems like a very limited perspective. I've been to many places in the world where taxis don't run. Being able to drive is a basic life skill, like knowing how to swim or cook a meal.

Many of the people I’ve met who cannot drive are actually some of the most traveled people I know. In fact spending short periods in lots of different countries makes it a whole lot harder to learn to drive.

I didn’t learn to drive until I was in my 30s and used to spend my 20s travelling the length and breadth of the U.K. and Europe. I even had a long distance relationship at the time too. A long distance relationship that worked because we are now married.

Sometimes I might have to plan a journey in advance (to figure out the route) but there were plenty of times I just went where the wind took me (proverbially speaking). And frankly even after learning to drive, smart phones weren’t invented yet and satnavs were luxuries, so you’d often still need to plan ahead even if you could drive.

So no, driving needn’t be an essential life skill for everyone. And that doesn’t mean they have a limited perspective either. On the contrary, if you cannot imagine life without driving then it is your perspective which is limited.

> In fact spending short periods in lots of different countries makes it a whole lot harder to learn to drive.

Huh?

Learning to drive in some countries and for some individuals can take months, be hugely costly and still only result in a license that isn’t immediately transferable to other countries (eg you have to hold a license for x years before you can drive abroad and/or older than x years old).

Other countries might not even allow you to apply for a learners licence unless you have a specific visa.

So if you’re a young adult and travel a lot, it might not even be possible, let alone practical, to earn a license.

Which is precisely why I didn’t learn to drive until I was in my 30s and ready to start a family.

What? Most countries support an International Driving Permit [1] which allows you to drive there on a tourist visa if you're licensed to drive in your home country.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Driving_Permit

I know. I already addressed the issues with that in my post. In short, your suggestion only works if someone has already had a valid driving license before travelling. Which plenty of people who travel lots (and I don’t mean holidays but backpacking for months/years on end or constantly moving from one country to another for work, moving on whenever they get bored) don’t have licenses.

Okay, so "short periods" that add up to significantly more than half the time? Since even if you spend every other week or every other month in another country that leaves you plenty of learning time if you want to.

That scenario adds up, it just wasn't what I thought when I saw "short periods".

“Travelling” in this context means people who spend months or years away from home. Or don’t even have a fixed place they call “home”. A bit like nomads, backpackers, etc.

Sure, some of them will drive. But I’ve also known plenty of people who cannot drive because they spend their time backpacking or who work a couple of years in one county then move to another.

If you're backpacking constantly, sure.

But a couple of years is a huge amount of time. If you put in just 4 hours a week you'll be done in no time. Not knowing how to drive in that situation is because of not caring very much, not because of moving around. And the vast majority of what you learn stays relevant when you move.

> But a couple of years is a huge amount of time. If you put in just 4 hours a week you'll be done in no time.

Sure, if you put 4 hours a week into any activity you’ll soon get good at it. But the crux of the issue is whether that activity is seen as a priority or not.

> Not knowing how to drive in that situation is because of not caring very much, not because of moving around.

They didn’t care because they were moving around a lot.

And frankly it doesn’t really matter what the reason is. Regardless of whether it is a practical or preferential justification, the end result is the same: plenty of people manage just fine without learning to drive.

I find it weird that this concept is so alien to some people. But I guess that’s a good example of the diversity of the readership on here.

You can take a car with you when you move. And leases exist.

This doesn't seem to be about travel at all. It's just that some people don't get a license.

It's not that the concept is alien, it's that the justification you gave isn't really true. It doesn't make it a "whole lot harder to learn to drive". Moving around has almost no effect on getting some driving lessons.

> You can take a car with you when you move. And leases exist.

But you’re not going to have a car if you haven’t already learnt to drive.

> This doesn't seem to be about travel at all. It's just that some people don't get a license.

They don’t get licenses because they’re travelling.

Time is finite, not everyone wants to use it learning to drive.

> It's not that the concept is alien, it's that the justification you gave isn't really true.

It was literally the reason I learnt to drive so late in life. It was the reason many of my friends either learnt to drive later in life or still don’t even drive now.

You might not relate to us but that doesn’t make it untrue.

> It doesn't make it a "whole lot harder to learn to drive". Moving around has almost no effect on getting some driving lessons.

It does if you don’t have a fixed residence. What address are you even going to put on your provisional license?

And if you’re going to spend 2 years max in any one place then you’re there to soak up experiences, not spend it learning to drive.

Look, I get some people see driving as a priority. But not everyone is programmed that way and not every place on earth requires a car to get around. You say this isn’t an alien concept to you yet you fail to accept that people like me exist. So I don’t really know what I can say further

I understand your lack of priority, I just think you're misattributing how much of that comes from being mobile and how much is just how you are.

Like, come on, if you're somewhere for two years it's not the 25 hours that make the difference.

And sure put the address you've been at for an entire year.

It's not a "whole lot harder". You personally didn't want to, and that is fine.

The what now? Please name a single country where you can't just enter and drive with an international driving permit straight away, I can't think of one off the top of my head. If you are going to live in a different country that's a whole different kettle of fish, but typically you can use your international permit for anywhere between 6 months - 3 years depending on the country. And the problem doesn't exist at all anywhere in the EU/EEA/UK, the licences can be used in any country without any time limit, or can be exchanged for the local equivalent without re-taking the exam.

You’re solving the wrong problem. The problem we are discussing is the difficulty of learning to drive when you’re travelling. If you already have a driving license then this entire discussion is moot because you don’t need to learn to drive if you can already drive. Pretty obvious stuff I’d have thought but a few on here seem surprised by this fact. Go figure.

Wait, but you said this, didn't you?

"be hugely costly and still only result in a license that isn’t immediately transferable to other countries (eg you have to hold a license for x years before you can drive abroad and/or older than x years old)"

So I'm going to ask again, what kind of countries issue you with a licence that isn't immediately transferable to other countries? You can get an international driving permit literally the same day you pick up your regular licence, there is no time limitation on that - or if there is where you live, please educate me so I know better.

Maybe the rules had changed, but when I was considering learning to drive in the U.K., I couldn’t use that driving license in the EU unless I had been driving for more than 5 years (or something in that region) and was over 25 years old (again, something in that region).

So you couldn’t pass your driving test then immediately drive abroad.

Edit: I cannot find any detail on that so maybe this isn’t the case any longer. Learn something new everyday :)

Different perspectives, perhaps. I'm sure it is a basic life skill if cars are necessary. For me and people around me, they aren't, and so it isn't. Any places without taxis have their replacements, or - much more likely - aren't suited for car travel at all. Swimming and cooking are skills of far greater necessity. It's strange to me to see driving compared to them.

Woodworking and the wiring of houses are also basic life skills, I imagine. I'll try to learn them when I get there. But so far, I've never wanted for the need to drive a car.

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