To me this seems extremely elitist. Non-technical people deserve to have their personal data stolen because they don't know about javascript for example?
For example: I have set up the systems of family members for whom i am some sort of digital janitor with a nice collection of firefox plugins to get rid of the worst offenders.
If you continue to willingly use socials like FB, TikTok, et al, your complaints about stolen personal data fall on deaf ears. Show me that you don't have those apps installed or do not visit their websites, then we can talk about being serious on deserving to not have data stolen.
Right, it probably is. But the issue of stolen personal data has been around for so long that nontechnical people have had years to develop political lobbying and to swing elections to put a stop to it.
The fact is that most people don't give a damn about such matters, if most did then the problems would be behind us by now.
Thus, unfortunately, with the internet it's every man and woman for him or herself. QED!
At this point I'm 100% OK with us being the only ones able to protect ourselves. We warned them and they didn't care. Allow them to remain uncaring. We don't have to help everyone. People must want to be helped.
As the techno elite, it’s actually our job to create the underlying reality everyone else participates in when using technology. So, it is our responsibility to care, if you care. It’s not theirs - they’re just here for the party. But that doesn’t mean they’re sheep for slaughter, because there are plenty of folks ready to slaughter them for money.
It’s our ability to understand the issues and to actually improve them that uniquely makes it important for us to care. But we can’t expect people to turn off the cat video for long enough to listen to us nerd at them, and we really can’t expect them to do something complex to avoid something they don’t understand or care about. What our challenge is is - how do we improve internet technologies sufficiently that everyone enjoys what we know is important but we don’t require them to care? That’s how you build a better emergent reality.
I’m glad to have had a hand in the Netscape and Mozilla’s launch and have watched Firefox for years with pride. They are the closest to a mainstream any man product that even remotely cares. WebKit safari is a close second. I hope we all find ways to develop the tech platforms that protect as well.
Yes, I'm absolutely sure. Do I really need to justify myself here on HN of all places? On a thread about the fingerprinting implements of the surveillance capitalism industry?
> that doesn’t mean they’re sheep for slaughter
Welp. If they don't want to be slaughtered like sheep, they better start caring then. I'm done with that.
At this point what I really care about is strengthening my own privacy by having more users in the anonymity set. The more indistinguishable users there are, the more effectively we are protected. I figure that if they're apathetic enough to allow corporations to exploit them with absolute impunity, they're also apathetic enough to join the anonymity set. Browsers just need to make that choice for them. It needs to be the new default.
> we can’t expect people to turn off the cat video for long enough to listen to us
I can and I do. What we're saying about this matter is important. People should listen, join the discussion even. When we reach out to people about matters we consider important, we do it with the best of intentions. We expect they'll at least put some thought into it. If not that, we expect they'll at least treat us with some respect, not like some schizophrenic off his meds. Can't expect anyone to continue caring after multiple instances of that.
> What our challenge is is - how do we improve internet technologies sufficiently that everyone enjoys what we know is important but we don’t require them to care?
Someone's gonna need to have the balls to make the choice for them. I don't have the resources to just make a better browser though. I do what I can by installing uBlock Origin on every single browser I come across. Everyone loves it and tells me that the web "feels" much better, though they can't quite explain why.
When people don't understand the implications or full ramifications then governments and lawmakers have to step in as they have a duty of care to protect citizens. It's one of the principal reasons for having government.
There are any number of examples, regulating the use of poisons, putting protection fences around cliff top lookouts, specifying the breaking strain of elevator cables, aircraft compliance design, removing lead from petroleum, and so on.
Unfortunately, governments have failed to act despite many warnings about these privacy matters.
Incidentally, there's an uncanny parallel between this example of governments failing to act even when in presence of the facts and my last example. In 1923 when Thomas Midgley and cohorts—engine makers and petroleum companies—sought permission to put tetraethyllead in fuel governments already knew the dangers of lead poisoning. Not only did they ignore all scientific warnings about the dangers of using the additive but also they embraced Big Business and approved the move at the citizenry's great expense.
Nobody said that. "My defenses work" != "my defenses should be necessary".