Why construction projects always go over budget
practical.engineering
practical.engineering
Coming from a software perspective, I thought this was pretty impressive. When was the last time anyone told you something was going to take a week and it actually took a week? :D
BTW, to answer a question about the crane, there are regulations limiting the crane to a specific height which change once the building gets tall enough to support having the crane bolted to the side of it.
But that’s just the simple stuff, the stuff without humans. Most of the time if something will take five minutes, we often try to find something to do that will take a few minutes. Well guess what, we always underestimate how long things will take, ususally by a factor of two. So a five minute build can take ten minutes for you to notice if it succeeded. And if it failed thirty seconds in, you might still be looking at fifteen to twenty minutes to the end of the second build (the more failures the lower the likelihood someone will multitask, but for some they only watch the third try closely).
This doubling and tripling is why it’s more important than you might expect for compile and test times to be very fast. An extra minute can turn into three way too often.
compare this to a software team that has plans (design docs) for everything they want o build. they have schematics (tickets) that say do this here. to this exact interface. they don’t (usually) say which tools to use or how to do everything, it’s assumed you know
i don’t think these scenarios should be that far apart. those people in the skyscraper aren’t moving walls. that would screw over the whole project. they have the output of more planning so they don’t have to. and it paid off during implementation
That's a recipe for failure
Programmers write the blueprint. The construction is handled by the computer (compiler, linker, tests).
Additionally, when your in the middle of creating your building, the owner doesn’t come in and say “actually, I want this apartment complex to also have a suite of luxury condors on every odd floor”.
It’s a fantasy to think that more planning would make software development cheaper or more on time. We tried that. That’s waterfall. And it failed miserably because software supports business needs which change on a quarterly or yearly basis. Not to mention that we need to update our software to take advantage of newer systems or security vulnerabilities. That building you’re putting has a fixed purpose that’s going to remain largely unchanged for 50 to 100 years or so, there’s generally nothing new to learn in terms of techniques and problems (unless your pushing things like with Burj in which case they did have to make on the fly adjustments and delay), and doesn’t have to deal with the challenges of the virtual space that software plays in.
So sure. If you’re a contractor building the same kind of website over and over again, I’m sure you can give a very accurate estimate of how long a given piece of work can take. If you’re trying to build a more scalable system or something totally new that hasn’t been done before, then there’s no plans to follow and you have to iterate until you figure out solutions to all the problems you encounter.
From what I've heard from people working in the construction industry, this sort of thing ("variations" I gather they're called) happens more than you'd think.
But then there are, of course, all those late decisions causing major delay.
The other side of this conversation is that construction does get delayed or not finished. Talk with anyone that has built a house and they'll have horror stories of months of delays. Commercial is the place to be for construction, residential seems like endless issues up and down.
I often wonder wether this is because software is such a new field (people have been making houses for millenia), or because of the kind of people software appeals to?
Many other professions are much more interested about providing services in time and reliably, than about innovation.
This can easily be explained in the part of the world I live in. Small/medium construction companies prefer to work on bigger projects than a house for obvious reasons. So they'll come over and do parts of your house in between jobs on the bigger sites which freqently means massive delays.
I have yet to be anywhere that used Jenkins and didn't make me want to throw the computer out the window with the amount of delays it introduced.
> compare this to a software team that has plans (design docs) for everything they want o build. they have schematics (tickets) that say do this here. to this exact interface.
Missing from your description is who is writing those precise plans and tickets that specify exactly what needs to happen down to the "exact interface", whatever that's supposed to mean. Whoever's writing those is your actual software developer, and they're wasting their time. If they already know exactly how the code should work, writing those documents takes longer than just writing the code itself. Throw the documents away and just write the goddamn code. Everyone else is doing literally nothing. What you described is not software development, it's a nightmare-creature feeding on wasted hours and crushed dreams.
If you are asked to write the same exact piece of code (like each floor) 18 times you'd probably have no problem meeting schedule.
I am not sure what "union break" is in Chinese...I would brush up.
You can say that we need experts, teams of consultants to issue reports at $1,000 per hour on disturbances to the local newt population or whatever, we need to pay off the bureaucrats in planning, we need to pay the unions and organized crime in NY...the reality is that someone has to pay this, and the US isn't efficient anymore. Layers of graft at every stage. China has just cut out the corruption, and they can sell the same goods at half the price, make double the profit...they just do it better.
You think the US isn't corrupt: how many consultants are taking their piece? The contractors, planning bureaucrats, the environmental consultants, architects, lawyers...it is endemic. At least in China you only need to pay off a few people, in the US you need to pay tens of thousands of consultants whose have acquired this role of tax collector through collecting various bits of paper from corrupt institutions (thank god for legacy admissions, right?).
No-one cares how sausage is made, they just want to know how it tastes. Chinese corruption gets things done. US corruption breeds more weakness, more waste, more corruption.
I can think of maybe 3-4 over the last 20 years. How common are they in the developing world? that'd seem to be a much higher number.
Citation needed…or not. It’s an obtuse claim on its face.
I’d argue corruption is an inherently corrosive influence, and the necessarily large bureaucratic apparatuses involved with things like large construction projects are particularly vulnerable to corruption.
You are absolutely correct that large construction projects are very vulnerable to corruption: Anything that has as high a budget is going to be rife with opportunities. But a project's culture will alter the kind of corruption you get. I was quite close to the construction of bridge spanning over a river, a little under a mile wide. Significant slippage in the delivery date was going to be very annoying to the powers that be: Being able to finish the construction prior to the next election was important, and being seen as the cause for a delay was going to lead to losing more projects that some of the very same people were going to keep overseeing in the future. So the bridge was done on time. It's just that a lot of palms got greased, and extra 'cement money' really went into things it shouldn't. For instance, the bridge's main engineer had just bought a derelict house that was completely restored by 'elves', from the construction company.
Sometimes the fact that something took 4 years too long is tolerable to the powers that be, while the construction definitely remains safe. Other times, the construction is just going to prove really faulty in 15 years, because things didn't go over budget, and someone took the difference between what the spec called for, and what could possibly appear to be a completed project.
Same with permitting. In some cities, corruption means you don't let people build something because you don't want it. In others, the mayor tells their friends to buy land zoned for low density, and then rezones to let them build 20 story buildings, making a mint. Still corruption, but different parts of a project suffer the consequences.
Only truly cursed projects manage to take 4 times as long, 20 times the costs, and end up with something awful in the end.
Shenzen was a rice paddy in 1990 and two decades later was a city of 20m people (2nd highest number of skyscrapers in the world too). The exact reason why China have been able to do this is the reason why you think it is impossible. People in the west are too lazy, too self-indulgent, too anxious about what other people are doing...China did it, they aren't paying attention, they don't care, they didn't ask anyone for permission, they just did it. In the time it takes to build a road in the US, they built a city with one of the most productive economies on the planet...where do you think the future is?
I only ask, because, well, that was my question originally, and, well, because your question does nothing to answer that question.
So, have you? Or are you just another online bystander?
He said of course they can finish, they have an entire week. Apparently he was incredulous. How does that NOT point to a week being more than enough time?
Maybe it's just me, but having my reputation staked on my estimates with an easy to read chart of dependencies and deadlines helps me 'servo' my effort(i.e. work overtime) and come in closer to the estimate.
I wouldn't suggest that for everyone, but some of us like that sort of pressure and the feeling that comes with nailing it. Then again, I don't have kids.
Busting my ass in my younger days to make "impossible" deadlines was far from unpaid work. It was a conscious tradeoff that paid off extremely well in cash and stock, and nobody cared about "undermining" their colleagues who had the exact same opportunities but chose not to chase them.
I don't "enjoy doing unpaid work", I "enjoy impressing people who casually throw big bags of money at people who are useful to them."
Management always tried to ride them like it was sheet music for an orchestra. This has to be done before this, so we’re going to schedule one to start the day after the other finishes. Sure. This whole scheduling process is a farce so I’m now entirely checked out, so it’s just going to get worse as the meeting goes on.
I'd argue that the dedicated project manager was much more important for success than the Gantt charts.
Add things generally go according to plan in Western countries so I'm not surprised. (I'm from a non-Western country where long term planning of anything is futile — too much entropy and chaos).
Computers, software etc is a very young field in comparison. By the year 4723 things would hopefully be standardized (and possibly build themselves).
Knowing this, one could say that its a minor miracle anything gets shipped in this industry.
Two Fridays away at 11:05 a concrete truck turns up and pours. At 13:10 something is laid by some specialist in the concrete. At 14:50 another thing happens.
I asked her if she was joking and she looked at me like I was mad. Of course not. The concrete needs to be poured and then the truck goes somewhere else. When it hardens a thing has to happen and then the guy who checks the thing turns up and they’ve only got him for half a day and so on and so forth.
My mate says that “if they built bridges like we built IT infrastructure a lot more people would die”.
My father-in-law was in commercial construction for decades, now turned general contracting post 2008 recession, and he has binder and binders of contractor business cards, including a concrete section. I can assure you project managers would be frantically calling all concrete companies trying to find a replacement. And they will.
There are not just concrete trucks just lined up down the road, waiting for a PM to say “okay we’ve got enough, you can stop now”.
The amount of concrete is known. It is planned. The 3rd party concrete supplier is given an order well ahead of time. They plan their trucks and drivers. None of this is made up on the day.
One of them having an accident matters.
This is why IT projects are such a shambles. When we forget something — a change request, say — we just say “oh well, that’s a pity”. Some poor schmuck has a bad afternoon running around making it good and life goes on. We get away with it because it isn’t concrete in a truck.
One truck can deliver about 8 m3 of concrete. If you need 100 m3, that's about 12 deliveries.
This can be done if 4 trucks make 3 deliveries each, or if 3 trucks make 4 deliveries each. The supplier has several trucks and while each one needs maintenance rarely, the fleet of them needs maintenance almost daily, so the supplier is likely to either over-provision (have a spare truck), or be able to procure one from his competitor across the street. "One of the trucks having an accident" is already planned in on the supplier level.
Risk management. Which in the real world actually means something, unlike those horribly pointless risk workshops your PM makes you turn up to.
The work package that contained the concrete truck would have assigned to it a risk. These risks have been carefully thought out ahead of time. I dare say in the building industry they re-use them. What an idea! Learning from your past. Anyway.
So the risk here is that ‘the truck gets stuck in an accident’, and that risk has a rating. An amount of money is assigned as a reserve to this risk in the event that it happens. This money is part of the project’s budget but ideally you never spend it. But it’s there.
So if the bad thing happens — freeway accident — the PM pulls out their risk register, looks it up, calls the boss, says “hey that risk eventuated, we need to use that reserve”, the funds are released, and the risk mitigation is initiated.
If people regularly died because of IT infrastructure, we'd be regulated and licensed like civil engineers and we certainly wouldn't be writing software in C/C++/nodejs. We'd all be coding in stuff like Ada and Erlang and most of our day wouldn't involve writing logic at all - it would involve filling out documentation and forms around the occasional bit of logic that would get written, probably by someone else.
Writing software is the equivalent of creating the blueprints; compiling is the equivalent of pouring concrete.
Maybe it didn't happen that time, or maybe it did and they remediated somehow (at higher cost), but I have a dataset that says it happens all the time. And that "it can't happen" attitude is part of why it actually happens- nobody is looking ahead at uncertainty.
Totally off topic, but is this a normal usage of this phrase? I've never seen/read "get jumped up" used in this sense.
> A contractor with a proven track record of rebuilding damaged freeways (most notably the Santa Monica Freeway after the 1994 Northridge earthquake) well ahead of schedule, C. C. Myers, Inc., submitted a winning bid of $876,075 to repair the damage to the I-580 connector. The bid was estimated to cover only one-third of the cost of the work, but the firm counted on making up the shortfall with an incentive of $200,000 per day if the work was completed before June 27, 2007.
> On the evening of Thursday, May 24, the I-580 connector re-opened, just before the busy Memorial Day weekend. The deadline to finish the project was beaten by over a month, with the contractor earning the $5 million bonus for early completion. The entire reconstruction project was completed only 26 days after the original accident.
Amazing: The Rebuilding the MacArthur Maze - https://youtu.be/-TKjwblp1XI
* Bidding low
* Negotiating an incredible daily reward for early completion (I imagine government did consult on the feasibility of this)
* Actually completing such a project in an incredibly short amount of time
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/05/04/...
> The collapsed section of Interstate 580 will be rebuilt and reopened to traffic within 50 days under a Caltrans plan to speed up repairs on the MacArthur Maze, officials announced Thursday.
> Nine construction companies have been given the weekend to prepare proposals to do the work, which Caltrans Director Will Kempton said should cost less than $20 million. Caltrans will choose one of the companies by Monday evening, rushing a bidding process that normally would take months.
> The firms must repair the collapsed freeway by June 29 or face $200,000 a day in penalties from the state. But should they finish the work ahead of schedule, they'll earn a $200,000-a-day bonus for each day they were ahead of the deadline, Kempton said.
> "There is absolutely no question in my mind that any incentives paid to achieve early opening is money well spent," he said at a news conference in Sacramento.
> The clock starts running Tuesday morning, Kempton said, and the contractor is expected to start work immediately.
> ...
> Kempton said that the bonus money offered to open the freeway before June 29 is based on what officials estimate the closures are costing the state. Caltrans will pay for the project initially from a highway safety account, but federal officials have said they will reimburse California for the repairs.
Sounds like $200,000 a day for bonus payments was nothing.
Incredible sense of teamwork, collaboration, support, care, pride in a job well done.
To me, it is efforts at this scale and quality that make “America great” and lets me reclaim the meaning of this phrase.
Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_85_bridge_collapse
Timelapse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0PB0BvKVI
> A state projection concluded that the connector collapse had cost $90 million, based on a $6 million per day economic impact estimate. This includes a $491,000 loss in toll revenue for the Oakland Bay Bridge.
$200,000 per day bonus vs $6M per day economic impact seems like a incentive that was priced very well for the state.
It worked great. They shut down the road for a couple hours, literally moved the newly built bridge from beside the road into place, and then were ready for rush hour in a couple days. I had a friend who worked the project.
America can build great things if we were willing, but the past 70 years has seen strong anti-government rhetoric (weirdly after the most successful big government projects seen probably in our history) has helped hollow out local governments and remove any chance they had to cultivate internal talent that could get more efficient at doing things.
Imagine having the pay of a local grocer, the turnover of Amazon warehousing, and the public animosity of Google and Facebook combined, with an entire TV channel watched by 60 million daily screaming that your very existence hurts the country, and plenty of grandmas taking that to heart. Government is overtly attacked every single day. Is it any wonder it often struggles?
Texas specifically shut down DMV offices in some of the most populated areas. Yeah, that's going to make the DMV suck in those areas. Of course, they left open then ones in the more rural areas, and those DMVs are going to be quite pleasant.
"Government doesn't work - elect me and I'll prove it!"
This bridge project started December 2017! So 5+ years of work for a weekend of final execution. On top of this, while the bridge may be in a small city in Maine, the initiative is run by the Maine DOT, which is likely substantially larger as an organization.
Anyway, some quick looking found:
> Gov. Janet Mills toured the Veranda Street site of the new bridge being installed along Interstate 295 in Portland on Saturday afternoon and said she was pleased with the rapid progress of the project.
> “I’m thrilled with the technology, thrilled that it’s going on time and on budget,” Mills said. “Three days’ time, and this bridge will be done. It’s amazing. It’s like giant Legos going together.”
https://www.pressherald.com/2022/04/23/i-295-bridge-replacem...
which seems like enough to go on to presume it's at least close to being on budget.
I-85 is an interstate highway serving a central economic corridor through Atlanta. A portion of the bridge collapsed when a homeless person lit a fire next to highly flammable plastics stored under the bridge, which later grew into a bridge-melting inferno.
The state of Georgia provided incentives for contractors to finish the project early due to the incredible economic damage it was causing. The loss of the bridge took out all travel on I-85 - it was a devastating and crippling loss that gave many Atlanta area knowledge workers their first taste of "work from home" (or five hour commutes).
The incentives provided absolutely made the contractors hustle. There was work ongoing 24/7 for the entire period, and they completed ahead of time and budget. I don't think I've ever witnessed something happen so fast.
It was a marvelous feat, and it's too bad we don't see more like it. It's what happens when the correct incentives and pressures are put in place.
https://transportationops.org/case-studies/i-85-bridge-colla...
Government gets this sometimes - subsidy for the things it cares about. Food, energy, defense. Those are all pretty solid, even if some of the vendors aren't the greatest. The sheer scale of the investment means we'll be okay. Too big to fail.
Often these big budget items get bloated by congressional sway pulling work into disparate districts as job programs. Or locked away in under-performing incumbents (Lockheed / Boeing vs SpaceX), but if we expose the system to more evolutionary pressure and competition, it might thrive.
SpaceX is an example of the RFP process turned on its head. Designing ahead of time for an understood public demand, in a bloated industry, in a way that serves both the public and private sector. A solution where the private sector needs serve to justify the cutting of costs and hone the product into a shape that is undeniably cost attractive and competitive.
The things the government subsidizes that don't compete or aren't forced to stay lean - education, transportation, infrastructure, healthcare - tend to bloat up and soak up all the money they can as well as underperform on all of our expectations.
Maybe the solution is to stop paying the current service providers and hire new ones that service private industry. They'll already be in a shape to optimize for costs and fend with competition.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Maze#2007_I-580_East...
As an example in a 5 year project for a new overpass you can have literally 1000s of different contractors involved in the work and it becomes very difficult to notice and prove that Joe's Cement company never showed up to pour the liminal substrate pylons like they were paid $10k to do.
Don't hire a mob-owned cement company, you say? Tough noogies, In NY, at least at that time, they were all mob-owned.
https://www.aviationpros.com/home/news/10393303/southwests-c...
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=401393
https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/23/nyregion/mob-allegation-c...
https://www.gothamcenter.org/blog/material-politics-of-new-y...
Yet the TV channel is controlled by the council on foreign relations, like all tv channels, and says exactly what the government directs them to.
https://mronline.org/2017/07/23/the-american-empire-and-its-...
Surely the solution to criticism of government inefficiency is for government to operate well. If visiting San Francisco was like going to Tokyo or Copenhagen—clean, efficient, convenient—Fox News would lose credibility. At some point, people in Missouri would point to San Francisco and be like “that’s great, why don’t we do that here?”
This is precisely the conservative game plan though: starve the government of funds, force it to outsource as much as possible to the private sector, then when projects end up delayed and overbudget (or failing), point to lack of government efficiency and competence to justify further funding cuts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
This has been happening since basically the Reagan era.
>> Surely the solution to criticism of government inefficiency is for government to operate well.
No organization can operate well if it doesn't have necessary levels of funding, and the government is no exception. Said lack of funding is the primary cause of the inefficiencies, which often times manifest as lack of inhouse expertise that can provide strict analysis of and oversight for projects outsourced to the private sector.
No, the primary cause is politicians promising things that sound good so that they'll get reelected, because that's the number one thing they care about, not efficiency. On the other hand a private company will only build something that makes economical sense.
Yes, economical sense to the company. But not all things that are good for society make economic sense for companies.
San Francisco? Lack of funding? $14 billion isn't enough?
The budget of San Francisco has roughly doubled in about the last ten years: is the government now twice as good at whatever it's supposed to do than it was ten years ago?
You can easily blow out a budget with foolish upfront attempts to save money.
I think that would be a fair statement to make in the global context, but Americans' distrust and paranoia around anything the Government does really is exceptional.
I'm not sure how accurate that generalisation is. The US has a lot of government – in some ways, a lot more than many other countries do, because local government in the US has a lot of responsibilities which in other countries are centralised at the state/province or even national levels - such as law enforcement, courts and prosecutors, public education, correctional facilities. Much of the US has two layers of local government (county and municipal), some parts even have three layers (e.g. the state of New York has village governments underneath town governments underneath county governments), when many other countries only have a single layer. The US has lots of special-purpose local governments (school districts, drainage districts, emergency services districts, etc), where in many other countries those kind of functions would be performed by state/provincial/national agencies instead.
Most of the anti-government rhetoric in the US is primarily directed at the federal government, not state or local governments. Even when state or local governments are targeted, it tends to be only directed at some of them. Some American conservatives will be very critical of the state governments of California or New York, but I doubt they'd be anywhere near as negative about the state governments of Florida or Texas or Utah or South Dakota. Or very critical of the county/city governments of big liberal-leaning urban areas like Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, but far less likely to criticise the local government of some rural "Red State" county or town.
Despite its reputation for hyper-capitalism, the US is arguably "behind" much of the rest of the English-speaking world when it comes to asset privatisation, public-private partnerships, public funding of private schools (US % of K-12 students in private schools is significantly below the OECD average, and severely limited public funding for private schools is likely a big factor in that), etc – and those issues are far from being the top priority for contemporary American conservatism. Which suggest that the US is actually far less "anti-government" than its popular image suggests.
The fact is people in other states have infrastructure that some of my taxes went to. I will never use those roads. Perhaps we should all be selfish and just take more and more for ourselves?
Principled, fiscal responsibility is a great thing and what I would champion - but these bad faith arguments are not fiscal responsibility. We need some level of service and infrastructure. Even if costs overrun, we still need highways.
Fox news can openly tell a court that it knowingly lied to its audience and lose only ten percent or so of its audience. They faced bigger backlash being critical of Trump. Meanwhile there are 49 other states, some of which that do things well, but fox news doesn't talk about that because they don't run positive stories about government because of their ideology.
A lot of the positive traits of these cities come from the citizens themselves. It's them as much as the government of these places that want that - therefore they create a system that achieves what they want - 'the government', and are willing to cooperate with it to get what they want.
If all San Franciscans wanted a clean, efficient and convenient city, I'm more than convinced that all citizens working towards that goal could readily achieve it, and would make a government tasked with those goals.
Governments I would argue, since they're usually made up of the local people, reflect the goals of these people. And if 'good enough' is OK for them, then that's what they get.
I would agree with that.
> If all San Franciscans wanted a clean, efficient and convenient city, I'm more than convinced that all citizens working towards that goal could readily achieve it, and would make a government tasked with those goals.
I think you have to carry through your reasoning from the first point. People in San Francisco have different goals than those in Copenhagen or Tokyo. I strongly suspect that they also have differing (and lesser) ability to put aside their individual concerns to work together on a mass compromise like public transit inevitably must be.
Which is a good reason for the rest of the country to not want to throw a bunch of money on transit projects. American infrastructure reflects the American psyche. We drive around in individual steel tanks on roads that can take us anywhere we want to go because that’s who we are as a culture.
> with an entire TV channel watched by 60 million daily screaming that your very existence hurts the country, and plenty of grandmas taking that to heart
Just say the name next time, I think it's obvious whom you are referring to. It's also obvious replies to your assertions are off topic in part because of this part of your reply.
So here's my list of what the article suggests cause large construction projects to go over budget.
> SUMMARY: > It’s a tale as old as civil engineering: A megaproject is sold to the public as a grand solution to a serious problem. Planning and design get underway, permits issued, budgets allocated (that took a lot longer than we expect), construction starts, and then there are more problems! Work is delayed, expenses balloon, and when all the dust settles, it’s a lot less clear whether the project’s benefits were really worth the costs.
> REASONS: > underestimation > limit in design prevents accurate overall estimation > subcontracting availability > subcontracting sufficiency > subcontracting estimation (bids) > missed pre-construction costs > inflation of labor and materials > course correcting takes longer on big projects > stakeholder compromises > not taking exploratory work into account > opportunistic greed > ...but that's not nearly as common as: "just too darned optimistic and short-sighted"
The suggested solution from the source, as the author points out, is to spend more time in design and planning.
ref: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/megaprojects-and-risk/7...
As far as software, that suggests waterfall like planning could give you a better estimation on total project expenditure. But delivery has won that battle, I think. Maybe as our industry contracts (layoffs and svb) we'll see a push towards that kind of project estimation too?
[This is good natured ribbing] Small? Small Maine City? I clicked this expecting to see Machias or Limestone, but I get your biggest city? Sure, it's small by comparison to other cities, but it is your biggest!
Tone is difficult to convey online, so please understand this is all in jest. :-) I grew up in DownEast Maine (Machias was my local 'small city') - so I actually was expecting some small city I'd never heard of. Jokes aside, that is very cool about the bridge, and you make good points in your last 2 paragraphs.
Right. Completely nothing to do with underdelivering while bending the knee to whoever corporation brib... I mean lobbied more.
One part I didn’t see is how project managers may deliberately underestimate to take advantage of the sink cost bias. If competing for funds, a PM may intentionally low-ball an estimate to get their project selected, knowing it’s easier to continually ask for more money later rather than a larger sum upfront.
I would have also liked to see more discussion about joint probabilities. If one sub-discipline goes over budget, it may other disciplines (particularly commissioning) exceed their initial estimate as well. Change orders beget change orders.
“News that the Transbay Terminal is something like $300 million over budget should not come as a shock to anyone. We always knew the initial estimate was way under the real cost. Just like we never had a real cost for the Central Subway or the Bay Bridge or any other massive construction project.
So get off it. In the world of civic projects, the first budget is really just a down payment. If people knew the real cost from the start, nothing would ever be approved. The idea is to get going. Start digging a hole and make it so big, there's no alternative to coming up with the money to fill it in.”
On a small/personal scale, you can (and I do) sandbag to a certain degree. But it's hard on a large project when everyone and their brother is looking to trim any fat out of the estimates.
The PM arrives later, once the project has been awarded and now they have to make these estimator sourced budgets and schedules somehow jive with reality. It isn't an easy task.
The first theory Flyvbjerg embraced is called “strategic misrepresentation.” Which is essentially a fancy way of saying that you lie in order to get what you want.
>FLYVBJERG: We’d actually interviewed planners who said that they did this deliberately, that they actually were incentivized to misrepresent the business cases for the projects in their benefit-cost analysis. And they wanted their projects to look good on paper, to increase their chances of getting funded and getting approval for their projects. And they said, “We do this by underestimating the cost and overestimating the benefits, because that gives us a nice high benefit-cost ratio so that we actually get chosen.[1]
I've experience this, but I also think it may depend on the unique culture of individual organizations. Of course, it's likely just one of many factors that ultimately lead to poor planning. The podcast in [1] covers some of them and it's a good listen for anyone interested in public work projects.
[1] https://freakonomics.com/podcast/heres-why-all-your-projects...
Prime example is the Scottish Parliament building, first estimate was for £50m. By the time all of the politicians were done with it the project's scope was unrecognisable and it cost well over £500m.
Seems like there's probably a "winners curse" variant: conditioned on a bid being accepted, it is likely to be underestimated even if unconditioned there's an equal probability of under and over resonating
Also seems like there's an incentive alignment problem as well: there's a clear benefit to bidding lower, and if the costs of underestimating are not born by the bidder then you would expect to see systematic underbidding even if we have on-average-accurate ways of estimating.
These feel like important issues that are orthogonal to our ability to estimate things accurately and I wonder how much of the effect is from which type of cause (I wish the author had talked about this)
Something is designed (years time), then it is estimated (often wrongly, however it takes some time as well), then it is approved/funded (some more years).
But, IF the design was valid AND the estimation was correct at the most you could adjust the total amount by inflation/increases of prices.
So, pure theory, you calculate a cost of 100 units (million dollars, whatever), then, since a few years have passed you should add (say) 10% for inflation/price adjustment before proceeding to a public bid (but it is extremely rare that this is actually done).
The construction firms/contractors will offer between 15% and 25% rebate, if the bid is (as often is) given at max rebate, the one with 25% rebate will get the job.
Now, assuming that the estimation is perfectly accurate (it isn't at all) the winner is (on the first day) under for at least 20%, 10% (the price adjustment, if included) and another 10% (their profit), while the remaining 5% is debatable, in the sense that it is what is actually possible that one construction company can save when compared to another for a number of reasons (machinery, organization, whatever).
So, from day one the winner has two possible ways out, the first is to actually optimize the work to recover this 20-25% (difficult) the second is to find errors in the project (relatively easy).
But, once the project is analyzed, what is found is not just the "missing" 20 to 25% (which if spent would not make the project over budget) but more likely something like 100%.
So, at the end of the day, you are going to spend 175 instead of 100, of which 15 is connected to the perversions of the bidding, but 60 is errors in the project or in its estimation.
The article does discuss this but your comment sounded to me like it was meant to be self-contained.
In theory every single price is estimated analitically adding to market costs for materials and labor a percentage (usually between 13 and 17 %) and on this total another percentage for the profit of the contractor (usually 10 %)[1].
The quantities are calculated geometrically.
So in theory the estimation quantities by price should be exact or within a very small approximation to reality.
But in practice this sometimes (often) doesn't happen, the main reasons (cited in the article) are time passed since the estimation, optimism about ground/soil conditions, use of "wrong" price lists (and more generally inexperience of the estimator or Law/bureaucratic restrictions), optimism about weather, optimism about interferences with other infrastructures, change of building code, added features, actual mistakes in the project or in the contract, the list is long, but all the items in it tend to be "negative" ones implying more time and money needed for the construction.
Of course there are also many projects that are fine, properly estimated and that are built in time and within budget but essentially all the estimation, even if done in good faith and by experienced technicians, are predictions (and predictions about the future, the most difficult ones).
A better, more accurate process during designing and estimating (the 3 to 5% talked in the article) might help, but likely it would be not enough or reduce the incertainty by the same 3-5% that is spent for it.
To all the above you add what is a sort of the S.E.P. (someone else's problem) syndrome, the one(s) that make the project and the estimation, by the time the site is ready to start are already elsewhere, in another job or another project, it is not unlike what happens nowadays in many industries, a new CEO is chosen, he does some cuts on costs, changes something in the products, and after two years, by the time the effects of the changes become actually evident he leaves and someone else starts again.
[1] it depends on countries, but usually what are used are pre-made price lists that are a (supposed) average for a given work and are either outdated or do not apply to the specific work
Vendors need to be rated and penalized for this kind of bait and switch, but unfortunately there is no downside to low ball the bid, and they often win and continue to win contracts.
> Vendors need to be rated and penalized for this kind of bait and switch
That wouldn't make the process more transparent or honest, it would just drive up the starting price.
Thankfully we're seeing a rise in multi-point bid comparison. Judgement criteria like "40% price, 30% Proposal Quality, 30% Prior History"
And that is exactly the point! We want more realistic estimations, rather than void promises.
https://phiprojects.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/boat_chang...
I see many public locations, where a short street or even a walkway is closed for months, because they need to repave literally 20-30 square meters of a walkway, while companies such as Hofer (Aldi) manage to repave their parking yard in a few days, while keeping half of it still open for customers.
A project in my city that resulted in adding a textured crosswalk pad, new stripes and a beg button cost $1.4M and took 3 years.
ADA does add to the costs of projects, but so does, say, safety code compliance. It's the law, and it exists for a good reason.
As for the example of a minor accessibility project costing $1.4M and taking 3 years, I would suggest that there is probably more to the story that helps explain the cost or the time.
1. New construction must meet ADA requirements. 2. Old construction can remain. 3. Repairing broken old construction requires meeting ADA requirements.
So between 2 and 3 you end up with broken old construction that cannot be repaired to "what it was" because repairs must meet ADA requirements.
Each step makes sense on its own, but combined they result in something worse (in particular) even though overall it works out better.
Or, just have a fixed window to achieve compliance or the building is condemned.
Then a popular crosswalk gets upgraded before a rural crosswalk that nobody uses anyway. An easy upgrade is done before a hard upgrade. Sometimes even new stuff might be built non-compliant if, for example, there are other substantial benefits that outweigh the fine.
Just burn the fine revenue. (Burning money is the inverse of printing money, helps reduce inflation, and means nobody has an incentive to maximize fines)
But ADA stuff is almost always handled on a local, not even state, level.
They're the ones who can print them anyway. The end result is they just print less each year.
If the new local maximum is "well, we won't fix it at all then" - the usual building code solution is property maintenance codes that mandate repairs.
Not in the long run.
ADA just forces better designs. Retrofits are costly.
> As for the example of a minor accessibility project costing $1.4M and taking 3 years, I would suggest that there is probably more to the story that helps explain the cost or the time.
Committees, political turf wars, getting funding for the project through grants (that are complicated to apply for, that's why you need a dedicated bureaucrat to do it!). Then there's union rules since construction workers from the city are government employees.
That's half a million in employee's salaries right there and not a single concrete steps has been taken yet!
I'm not going to argue that it isn't necessary or right. But it absolutely costs more. A bathroom stall, for example, literally takes up more space, and that costs. A ramp and stairs takes up more space, materials and time and that costs.
There are things which are right to do, but disingenuous arguments to support them aren't helpful.
Adding a beg button can mean upgrading or replacing the signal control module, which could mean replacing the housing if it's not large enough for the new module. (Audible-tactile buttons and controllers themselves cost $5-6k each, just for parts.)
Aside from that, the issue with ADA compliance costs isn't when a municipality or DOT pays for them. It's when they remove the crosswalk entirely because they decide compliance isn't affordable enough.
There are other requirements as well relating to multimodal travel depending online the funding source.
All the while, we had an increasingly dangerous intersection with no visible crosswalks and outdated signals for years.
The stupid isn’t ADA, it’s compliance activity. Cities and towns cannot afford the engineers to meet the standards, so the Federal and State governments fund projects. So there’s no framework of best practices beyond the state standards - each project is a special snowflake.
Oh, your road itself is at a slope greater than 3%? Oops, you can't legally do it!
It's okay to have standards. It's not okay if they're bullshit.
ADA ramp max slope should be 1:12, i.e. 8.33% which is (IMHO) reasonable.
Recommended slope for drainage on concrete and asphalt is .25-.5:12, or 1/4" to 1/2" over 1' of length.
Recommended slope for wheelchair ramps are 1-1.5:12, or 1" to 1.5" over 1' of length.
Sometimes the comments on this site are just insufferable.
And sometimes it’s ridiculous: drive through ATMs with braille for instance. Private motel swimming pools requiring wheelchair lifts. That extreme additional cost means that many motels just won’t have a swimming pool at all — so everyone is worse off. But you can’t charge disabled people a swimming pool surcharge since that discriminatory. So it raises costs for everyone. By the way, I am referring to private building codes, not taxpayer-funded projects like sidewalks.
Certainly you’ve heard of Little’s Law if you hang out in HN?
Passengers in the backseat.
Why haven't they been fixed? Why does the city continue to be cruel to disabled people year in and out, content to absorb the lawsuits from the few with means to bring them up? It's probably a simple case of those lawsuits being a lot cheaper than actually fixing the sidewalk to the standards the sidewalk is supposed to be fixed. This is an example of a regulation that was meant to help people (building nice sidewalks with various characteristics), but in the end the regulation was written with no understanding of the cost of these changes, or how they might stack up against the cost of doing nothing at all, so its an example of a bad regulation that should be changed so it can actually help people.
Put differently, if you live long enough, you can pretty much guarantee that you will benefit from the facilities the ADA requires at least once (and possibly for a more extended period than my daughter did).
It all looks like extra cost for little benefit until you can see it through the eyes of someone who actually needs this stuff, at which point it becomes at least a valuable and at best a life-enabling set of features.
And the chances are good that you will be one of the people, assuming you live a long and healthy life.
On these tiny projects, usually the difference between what a public administration and a private can do is only the bureaucracy involved which is a lot for the public and very little for a private firm.
Sears tower was built in three years, while our neurologic clinic [1] with three floors took more than a decade.
Say what you will, but sears tower is a complex project.
Construction times are even trickier, as they may also be influenced by other factors (authorizations/approvals or changing norms as an example).
A (typical) appropriate construction time for a (large/complex) project is around 4-5-6 years, 3 years means they were fast (in Chicago , in the '70's) 10 years means they were slow (in Slovenia, in more recent years), but otherwise there is no way to make senceful comparisons.
A (larger) town nearby they contract, and everything gets pretty bad before they sign a huge contract, and the company works for a year and fixes everything in one long go.
Not saying that this project was simple by any means, but why did it take seven years to finish? For comparison, the Sears Tower, arguably Chicago's most iconic building and at one time the world's tallest building, only took four years to complete.
[1] https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/05/10/navy-pier-flyover-a-...
For instance, it looks like the Navy Pier Flyover touches the ground in many different places along its half-mile length, each of those places will have different junk buried there already, unique challenges and access restrictions, and new ownership/usage agreements.
With the skyscraper you dig one messy hole then stack and connect layer after layer of engineered rectangles.
Especially when things like equipment, cones and barriers are being rented at high daily rates for months while work is practically at a standstill.
Take for example the Munich "Luise Kiesselbach Tunnel": it finished early and under budget, and to my knowledge in its seven years of operation there was no apparent case of cutting corners or botched work. And now one may ask, how is that possible in the country that produced infamous disasters such as the BER airport, the Elbphilharmonie or the #2 S-Bahn tunnel under Munich?
The answer is, the funding makes no difference - the oversight of the funders over the construction process does. When you have to hire external consultants for each project, where the people keep on rotating, instead of having expert knowledge in-house that answers to you, you'll always end up with worse quality - and the external consultants may not have the political standing to override pushes for changes, which tend to be a massive issue in government-funded projects.
Incentive alignment is one of the main problems. When big projects become “job builders,” you’ve now completely misaligned your incentives.
- catch politicians' bullshit before planning (plans that, say, lead directly through a nature reserve) or during construction (e.g. a new politician comes in and wishes some random shit to change just to be able to brag "I did something") and intervene
- check bids on tenders if they are actually plausible or if they are so far under a realistic budget that there will be massive problems later on (e.g. the company threatening insolvency to demand re-negotiated higher rates)
- check impediments if they are actually legitimate or if they are overblown and resolve them
- keep vendors accountable to milestones
You can forget about the first two points, which are the most critical, for external consultants.
So yeah private ones usually do meet budget.
Source - am architect
It would have the bonus effect of making infrastructure construction/maintenance projects happen more often. Both by lower the barrier to get started (no need to have contractors bid your project, etc) and b/c it's wasteful to have public employees just sitting around with no work to do.
I'm not sure it results in projects being cheaper or quicker overall.
I used to be a public sector dev with an agency that stores plaintext passwords and direct deposit information. People simply didn’t know any better and because government doesn’t have merit raises, the rest of us simply didn’t do anything about it.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/08/31/the-rubber-roo...
And have you ever been to a government office to pull a permit? Or dealt with government procurement? Or attempted to get paperwork through the FAA?
And your experience with who you’ve worked with isn’t data by the way.
Yes. It was relatively straightforward, as long as you followed the rules.
The hard part is following all the relevant rules, almost all of which exist because people have tried to rip off the government or lawmakers decided to impose unrelated requirements on procurement. That's not the fault of the government workers whose job it is to carry out the requirements that have been imposed on them.
And what does an opinion piece about teachers have to do with procurement? Those are completely separate things.
The hard part is not going postal as you find out piece by piece that person A didn't tell you about rule X and that department T actually has a revised form W that... and on and on until you find out that you didn't actually have to do any of that because there's some other less shitty process none of these people told you about.
It's like the bureaucratic runaround is the default behavior in some of these organizations.
It's your job to do the research and do things out correctly so that person A doesn't have to waste time telling you what you should be doing.
Or do you think that government agencies have the budget to hire customer support representative and receptionists with intimate knowledge of their department's rules and regulations?
Yes, several times, and it is always completely straightforward. Fill out the appropriate forms, provide the correct documentation, pay fee. If it can be approved by the administrator, it’s issued promptly. If it needs a hearing, it’s scheduled for the next one, you show up and answer questions, they make a decision promptly and it’s either issued or not. I’ve rarely had such efficient interaction with private companies.
Let's not put the cart before the horse, shall we? Yes, all human organizations can suffer from these things (and maybe some more than others). But that's not a reason in and of itself to dismiss an entire class of human organizations as irretrievably doomed.
Look at what the UK government's digital service has done: absolutely outstanding online presence for so many important government services.
For example, you can't use SSN to identify someone. Unless of course you were doing it before the prohibition was established. Apparently it's fine if you keep using it, forever.
Ah yes, because that's what government workers are known for, speed, efficiency and quality.
Trams run fast and very rarely break.
The problem is not the people completing the work; it's not like Aldi's has their own paving machine in the back.
It's that the government doesn't have employees who know how to specify the project and nobody has an incentive to finish in a timely manner.
I think the real problem is more that there is accountability for job performance in the private sector (you get fired if you suck and waste your boss's money) and very little to none in the public sector. No one votes for politicians based on objective performance data.
It'd wild to me how it's considered American to have this sort of bid process because "free markets" and "small government" but the results are everything Americans accuse socialist countries of being.
IMO, a lot of the differences come from the different set of rules that govt work has to run by. For example, Aldi can just decide to hire a contractor that they know does good work at a reasonable price. In contrast, the govt has to use a lengthy fair and open bid process and if they want to select a bid that isn't the lowest, it's a painstaking process to justify that selection. Govt work must adhere to certain laws that tend to push up labor wages (see: Davis Bacon Act). Plus, the govt has lots of other competing goals, like supporting minority or veteran-owned business etc. A simple comparison misses all of those nuances.
The administrative controls are lagging indicators at best, and administrative controls are usually one of the least preferable control mechanisms.
It's unfortunate, but probably better than the corruption that anything else will enable in the long run. Churchill said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. For government spending, lowest bidder is the worst form of contracts, except for all the others.
FWIW, the govt can do "best value" contracts instead of lowest bid. But there is an asymmetry in risk to those making the selection. If something goes wrong in the design/construction, or if corruption is found, there's a lot more explaining to do. Like the old quote, "Nobody got fired for hiring IBM," except in this case "Nobody got fired for selecting the lowest bid."
Isn't that a recipe for cost over-runs?
I mean, it sounds like if building a tunnel costs $100M and one company bids $100M (planning to deliver on budget), a second company bids $50M (planning 100% cost overruns) and a third company bids $25M (planning on 300% cost overruns) it's mandatory to select the third company?
Do governments actually award contracts based on race?
https://selectgcr.com/blog/minority-owned-businesses-how-to-...
And yes, it causes massive corruption.
But yes, it can open the door to corruption and inflated costs. For example, a tiny veteran owned corporation may be hired who subcontracts to a massive firm instead of the other way around. The govt would probably be better off just contacting to the large firm directly.
But private companies have to contract out to private developers. ALDIs doesn’t have a construction division.
I’m all for taking care of the environment, but it feels like there’s a lot more “let’s get community and environmental input” than we had in the past (for better and for worse).
> There is no perfect project that makes everyone happy. So, you end up making compromises and adding features to allay all the new stakeholders. This may seem like a bunch of added red tape, but it really is a good thing in a lot of ways. There was a time when major infrastructure projects didn’t consider all the stakeholders or the environmental impacts, and, sure, the projects probably got done more quickly, efficiently, and at a lower cost (on the surface). But the reality is that those costs just got externalized to populations of people who had little say in the process and to the environment. I’m not saying we’re perfect now, but we’re definitely more thoughtful about the impacts projects have, and we pay the cost for those impacts more directly than we used to. But, often, those costs weren’t anticipated during the planning phase. They show up later in design when more people get involved, and that drives the total project cost upward.
I work for government myself and have often been frustrated by the inefficiency forced upon us by well-intentioned but misguided legislation. Also, you learn pretty quickly that some contractors play the game better than others and will win one government contract after another, not because they will do the job better, but because they understand the rules around bidding better.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_Flyvbjerg#Megaproject_pla...
2. https://www.amazon.com/How-Big-Things-Get-Done-ebook/dp/B0BR...
For other HN readers interested in the topic I can recommend “ The Oxford Handbook of Megaproject Management”. Bent Flyvbjerg is the editor of the book I believe.
As a software engineer, I completely agree. This is why we do Agile (and friends), so estimates are just weeks out. But what do you do when you need to plan a decade-long project? Software industries avoid those, so I guess we're fortunate.
Imagine you're starting from scratch. You want create a company that will make a fancy new database. You need to know things like how many people you'll need to hire, how much those people will cost, and some idea of how long a viable project will take.
There's no scrum team yet, as you haven't hired them. You still need to generate some sort of answer.
With software, the process of designing and building are the same. Upfront you know nothing, then you start iterating and at some point you have the finished thing after you've progressively learned all the requirements. There is no separate build phase. People used to pretend there was and that never really worked. The end result of a software project is an executable specification. The process of specifying is all that ever happens. Writing a specification for the specification is not really a thing. At best people attempt partial, very incomplete and hand wavy specifications. But it's not the same thing and it typically lacks the rigor of a hardware design.
Agile hardware design is increasingly a thing as well. E.g. SpaceX is iterating on their rocket designs. This is not some grand design they came up with years ago but a specification that they keep on refining by attempting to build it and by learning from the failures. The number of iterations is not a fixed number. It's as many as they need to. They build parts, tools, and machinery along the way as they discover what they need. Very different from how rocket design used to work. And apparently a lot cheaper too.
My friends who work construction in the US say that contractors routinely do a job wrong the first time, throw some apprentice under the bus regarding the "mistake", and ask for more money to re-do it. It's a common way of milking contracts and happens everywhere all the time. Their experiences are in large (hotels, hospitals, every school in a certain district, etc.) contracts, not the domain of your neighborhood general contractor.
I can't speak to the relative prevalence in Europe but anecdotally I was always pleasantly surprised by how quickly those jobs got finished.
One notable exception is the new housing being thrown up quickly in metro areas of the US. Sometimes they still progress in fits and starts but sometimes they go up super quick too.
I’ve been watching construction of what looks like a 10x20 shed along the turnpike for 3 months now. If any of us hired a contractor to build us a large shed and it took more than a few days we’d start asking questions real quick.
Traffic engineers have known this since one lane roads were expanded to two lane roads. The real question for this project is why a solution known not to work was chosen over solutions known to work.
The goal is increased throughput/economic activity. If it takes X time to get a vehicle from A to B, and then you add lanes & demand goes up to keep X relatively constant, that can still be a net gain for community. It's about as equally frustrating for the folks sitting in traffic, but there's still more vehicles getting from A to B because there's more lanes, and more vehicles moving around can be good for the local economy.
They've still chosen an incredibly stupid solution if that is their goal. Building more highway is the least efficient means of improving transit throughput.
I've worked on big construction projects as architect, billion dollar projects, and many of them were in time and under budget. This was because of the new CAD planning tools I brought in. But esp. because if falling steal prices, experts in the costly parts, the foundation, earth work, no storms, no flooding,no politicians and customers changing their wishes during construction. No litigation during the process, only after.
That's why they'll never build under budget in Germany. You'll always have one of these obstacles, esp. litigations by loosing bidders. And those clueless politicians.
Newsflash: neither is anyone else on your team if the project has any kind of reasonable complexity.
It is made worse by the fact that you typically have 1) a large number of different expert firms involved, creating huge dependencies (imagine instead of FE & BE, having 8 different types of engineers, that can only work in a certain pre-defined order and have very limited availability (so if you are late and miss a slot, they may only be available again a few weeks or months later) 2) communication is either physical meeting of principles (bosses/managers) - rarely actual workers, email or paper print outs. It is not uncommon for on premise workers to work with month old plans that have since been changed.
Buildings are one of the few purchasable objects that have gotten more expensive over the last decades (compared to pretty much every consumer goods item).
If the organization that needs a thing done has no idea how to do the thing, it's unsurprising they do it poorly.
[1] https://slate.com/business/2023/02/subway-costs-us-europe-pu...
(We have no inhouse experience to run a large project, so we're not going to risk mucking everything up in a high-stakes large project (which would be political suicide), so we never build up the inhouse experience to run a large project...)
Because the engineer(s) doing the estimate in-house didn't have enough broad experience in the various disciplines to accurately price the project to begin with, it was allocated less funding than necessary when it was put out to bid and the entire process starts out too lean for the needs of the project.
I've seen people build a house and the cost of construction was exact on budget, but the upgraded doors, lights, and similar small things made them $30,000 over budget. This is even though their contractor was constantly warning them that those upgrades were going to cost. The general contractor doesn't change any more $ to install upgraded fixtures, that money all to the manufactures of the doors, lights... (changing after they are installed costs money, but when it is time to order doors he is thinking oak, pine, or maple (minimal cost differences between them) and you decide to get the 6 panel door that will cost a lot more.
Of course their price is for the doors/windows they use which are on the cheaper end. Not cheapest - warranty callbacks and installation costs often make something just above the cheapest the best deal. If the difference isn't very much they will install the big brand that everyone knows is good as well as the reputation of putting in the "the best" is worth the few dollars profit lost. Good contractors know all of this and how to find the best balance.
"It generally takes twice as long and costs twice as much as originally estimated."
Amen! Rarely has the rule of thumb failed me over the last 30+ yrs. Whether it's a project around the house or a client's new feature request*. It works.
I wish I had $20 for every time I've seen someone else's best case scenario estimate knowing that nothing ever goes as planned. Humans and life so rarely work that way.
* Clients aren't aware of the initial estimate, they get the rule of thumb version.
Estimates of big endevours must be made by comparison instead of breaking down the tasks to avoid the second issue. That's one of the little secrets that make poker planning succesfull.
Because for them to do so, every single thing needs to happen perfectly, while to be late of over budget, a single thing needs to go wrong.
Over budgetting doesn't work because then your customers won't chose you when the bidding starts.
There's no good-faith reason to always underestimate something when it's been done millions of times.
Wow much time ago.
Seriously ?