Comment by lisp-pornstar | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lisp-pornstar | Hacker News Reader

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That's not selfish, GRs are sometimes crossing natural park in which nature and wilderness related laws are enforced, there are people that can sue you if you smoke a cigarette/walk in certain areas/throw some trash at the ground/camp in les calanques de marseille for example (the south of france is highly inflammable during summer). In order to maintain the local biodiversity, keep a minor impact of the local wilderness of these places (endangered species often), some money has to be raised, experts have to be paid to help decisions (should a trail be modified for X reasons related to what I said supra, should some trees be cut down for security reasons, should some security lanes be created to prevent fires etc...), which then requires the intervention of professionals to apply these decisions. You also have to pay "rangers" sometimes (I don't know of many parks of france, i'm mainly talking about calanques and cevennes).

When I go climbing I have to buy a local guide documenting all the historical climbing spots; the persons that sells the guide are the one that equipped and maintened these historical routes : is it selfishness ?

No, sorry, that's an absolute nonsense argument.

To start with, the official law enforcement, and park maintenance is managed and facilitated by the state, payed by the tax payers.

Secondly, the associations like the one mentioned above, although making use of the resources of their members, are in part being bankrolled by the state. So, again, payed with tax payers' money.

Thirdly, the association, labelled an association of public benefit, should fit the following definition: "Elle n'exerce pas d'activité lucrative. Sa gestion est désintéressée. Elle ne fonctionne pas au profit d'un cercle restreint de personnes", or, after loosely translated: 1) It should not be profit driven 2) Its management should be selfless 3) It should not function at the benefit of only a restricted group of people.

And it this case, it sure sounds like point 2 and 3 are put in doubt with their patent and intellectual property fighting nonsense barring open maps from including their paths.

Beyond a recognition for the time and effort invested in the maintaining of the markings on the hiking trails they trace, it really looks like a disproportionate and misplaced application of intellectual property rights.

And taking into account that a lot of tax payers' money is making the entire endeavour possible, it would make some sense to return a bit of that value back to the tax payers by making the markings available for free in openly accessible maps.

Just charge admission/sell a permit

How ?

The same way you force them to buy a map.

Unless "I have to buy" is a mistranslation.

You don't have to buy a map, paths begins usually in villages or lead to them. Usually when I walk in an unknown place I can find some of the red signs that indicates a GR, sometimes with distances and names of places they lead to. I hiked a lot without a map, never struggled to find a GR, local people usually know about them very well.

Yea, I think this is what is interesting about this approach. It’s an optional tax If you don’t have the money you can muddle along or do your research but if you have money you can just support the trails by buying a map.

Seems easy and efficient. You don’t need to charge mandatory admission and collect money (like is done in the US) you just sell an optional map in local stores. Makes sense.

If you want to do a through hike in the US, don’t follow this approach. You can’t believe how much bigger the place is than the anywhere in Europe.

I have hiked sections of the PCT without seeing another human for a week. Other western trails are even more desolate.

Also backcountry trails are rarely marked, except at some trailheads. The government maps were mostly made in the 1970s and contain trails that don’t exist any more (and of course don’t include newer trails).

My preference is to carry topo maps + compass and carry a small GPS for emergencies if I cannot locate myself.

In Canada the typos are quite good but have in my experience even less trail or stream information.

In both countries I recommend planning trips with someone local who knows the territory.

Yes, and It has some interesting historical implications.

You can buy the hexatrek map for 50 euro, or each section for 10 euro each.

As a long distance hiker, I can promise that this monetary decision will result in wilderness rescues if not tragedies.

Even trails that have free apps there are people who try to go without...

It's inevitable that people will follow parts of the trail without the paper map. Perhaps hunting geo caches. Or perhaps looking for a waterfall they saw on Google maps or some website.

If it's in OpenStreetMap, they can easily follow established trails using an app they are used to. I.e. less erosion. And when they get lost or injured, use the app to self rescue.

I don't find a good solution to have to pay a license to have the right walk the path I walk everyday to go from A to B, that my grandparents walked (just as their own grandparents did etc...), a path that has been traced by the sole circulation of humans in a forest, that local people "created" and that is now part of a GR. Maybe that's only a psychological effect in my person, because something in me is okay with the fact of paying a global tax that would fund every activity related to the maintenance of the trails and the protection of wilderness.

There can be a free permit register along the trail need to sign. This is fairly common for hiking trails in some countries. It may also assist search and rescue efforts.

If the permit only covers a small area and it's not at the trail head, through hikers will rather buy a permit that covers the whole route.

> there are people that can sue you if you smoke a cigarette

Wish this was true everywhere!

Thats still not fun though.

What is fun is that you don't need a map.

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