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Comment by notamy | Hacker News Reader

> We wouldn't have a problem saying "two males walking around"

I do. Say "men" or similar. Calling men/boys "males" is just as dehumanising as calling women/girls "females." Treat EVERYONE properly.

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Police and military use male and female, perhaps to avoid ambiguity. This is the first time I've heard some feel the terms are dehumanizing.

Police and military do this specifically as a strategy at passive language. At least among those interested in linguistics, cops are famous for their usage of passive language to downplay violence they participate in: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/07/14/...

Basically, they do it because the terms are in some way dehumanizing.

I also find the terms dehumanizing, but specifically because I've noticed that it's most frequently a term used by incels, self-identified or otherwise. It's common on certain subreddits or on twitter to see users aligned in gamergate / manosphere circles using "females" when talking about women. And yes, these same people will say "men" when talking about men.

No they do it because it’s the correct term. If you say “a man wearing a white T-shirt” and the actual suspect is a 14 year old boy. Many of the people searching with disregard them in the search because they got told to look for a man. When it goes to court the defence lawyer would use it as doubt since the description is for a man and not a boy.

Police are also fond of saying "individual" instead of "person," which is another way of dehumanizing the people they encounter. It's always a red flag to me when I hear someone say the word "individual."

Dehumainzing others is one of the main characteristics of the military in wartime, and often the police in peacetime. You maybe have a pretty cool life experience not to have experienced that.

probably because they aren't

It is very common to say "I saw two males doing x" when reporting what you saw. Just as common as saying you say two men. And this proves my point, you would have a problem no matter what. You're just wanting to be outraged.

Imagine thinking someone's gender dehumanising them. It makes no sense. The idea "You're not as human as them because you're male" is an asburd one.

> Imagine thinking someone's gender dehumanising them. It makes no sense. The idea "You're not as human as them because you're male" is an asburd one.

Absolutely not what I'm saying. My objection to it is specifically that referring to someone with "male"/"female" as a noun, in common contexts, can -- not will -- come off as dehumanising, particularly when some people tend to only use "male" or "female" for one gender and not the other.

> You're just wanting to be outraged.

I want people who both don't know that smth may make others uncomfortable and want to change in that case have the relevant information. If you don't want to change, then... good for you? That's not my problem. You do you, I guess?

As I said, its' all about context. And the context it was used it was perfectly fine, normal, etc. In fact it was perfect English, it's common to see 16 year old girls walking late at night just as common to see 40 year old women walking late at night. They're both female, one group are girls and the other group are women.

> I want people who both don't know that smth may make others uncomfortable and want to change in that case have the relevant information. If you don't want to change, then... good for you? That's not my problem. You do you, I guess?

Right back at you. It makes other people uncomfortable when others go around saying a gender is dehumanising. Especialy, when in English it's the correct word. Female/male is refers to gender, woman/man refers to gender and age. It makes people very uncomfortable when you imply they were some how rude when they weren't.

But as I said, people who would be outraged would always be outraged. It's the new trend, to show they're thinking of other people while disregarding others.

It is not outrage. It is demanding that women get respected in the ways that they want to be respected. Perhaps you have not noticed the tendency for some people to consistently refer to men as “men” and women as “female” or “girl”. If you don’t like it, too bad. We will continue demanding respect. It takes exactly zero seconds to use the word “woman” over “female”.

You demand respect for women by saying their gender dehumanises them?

Perhaps you've not noticed but some of those people are women. You going to start correcting women when they say they're off on a girls night out and tell them it's a womens night out? You going to start correct them when they say they have an all female executive board and tell them it's an all women executive board?

The reality is, when you say that the word female is offensive, which you are, you're making their gender offensive. And that is not respectful.

It's very common to call kids 'boys and girls'.

What would you use if you were referring to two male 15 year olds? Two boys? Two men? Two male adolescents? Two teenage boys?

Young adults or teenagers.

Not kids. Kids would be elementary students, for example.

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