Women to Facebook: Stop banning our breast-feeding pics
news.cnet.com
news.cnet.com
Personally I think it is a case of over sharing. I have nothing against public breast feeding but I don't need to see dozens of photos of you doing it. If you think it is a mundane activity that should be more socially acceptable don't share it on Facebook, you're sensationalising it.
And if it matters to you that they can share any content without risk of it being pulled, start a blog. This is a case for the open web I guess which there has been quite a lot of talk about these last few days.
I hope that doesn't come off as a rant/rude but it seems like something blown out of proportion.
In general, I would rather not weigh ourselves down with unnecessary rules.
I think you want to re-think your logic here. There are a lot of natural acts (e.g. defecation, sex, dying of tuberculosis) that aren't generally accepted as public acts, and that arguably shouldn't be. I don't care one way or another about public breast feeding, but your argument seems broken to me.
Your original intent is clear enough though, so it doesn't matter. While posting in places like these where sentences can be taken apart, one develops a new respect for television personalities and politicians who have to think of how every sentence can be interpreted.
I am a breastfeeding mother who lives in Vancouver and to be completely honest with you, while I do breastfeed in public without any consideration for people around me (passport office, liquor store, park bench etc.) and do not cover myself up, I do feel that some women in my community take it too far to prove a point. Someone has either told them something and they are lashing out or they are simply trying to do something for the cause.
The article doesn't tell us what was the privacy level of her photos. I wonder if they were public and have been taken down for that reason.
If Facebook, however, is in the business of taking down private photos, then anyone posting a picture of their child could be seen as a child pornography, couldn't it? And that is not even legal.
Methinks that there is more to this story. Something is not adding up.
Why do you not insist on performing other bodily functions in public?
You cannot seriously expect that all breastfeeding mothers will be hidden away for 30m to an hour every 2 hours simply because somebody might see a booby.
Jesus christ people, it all basically boils down to respecting the people around you. If you can't handle the consequences of breeding, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
People say things I consider delusional, ignorant, or offensive all the time. I respect their right to do so, and I don't believe they should "respect" me by keeping their mouths shut. Case in point above.
Also what's special about Asians, are you making a generalization or something? All Asians cover up, only white people expose themselves? Exactly, what value does that bring to this conversation?
Why should someone have consideration for other people when doing something that no reasonable person should find offensive?
Some people find it offensive that you (or perhaps your sister, wife, mother) leave the house with their head uncovered (unless of course that is what they happen to do). Should all of western society cater to this, because some people feel they should?
As for insisting on performing other bodily functions it is because a) for those things it is a legitimate public health issue and b) babies are not controlled like an adults bowels. For that matter neither are babies bowels and it's perfectly normal to change your baby say in a public park (though one would hope you don't regularly post that to facebook).
Honestly this whole thing is overblown, and as unimportant as topless sunbathing, or nudity on television. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest this sounds like a bit of an American problem.
But as far as my opinion on the subject of breastfeeding goes, I'll just say this. As a man, the only opinion I or any other man really needs to have about this is that we don't need to have an opinion about it. Move along, nothing to see here.
Society (in the US) is geared to see nudity as taboo or shameful. This is hammered home in media, law and our general Christian history. You can call it an American problem, but that's just a cop out because with a wide world of users, you'll never be able to lump all of us as having common culture (including laws and morals).
This is also something which may or may not be legal for various reasons (depending on jurisdiction).
Add to this that flagging of content in Facebook is crowd sourced.
I think a reasonable person would be able to understand why these images are being flagged as offensive and being removed.
For the record, I'm happy to let Facebook decide to do whatever they feel is in their best interest. I don't know any laws in the US that prohibit breastfeeding in public, I do however know a number of states have made it explicitly legal specifically to ensure ignorance like this doesn't get the best of people.
http://www.breastfeedinglounge.com/breast-feeding-in-public-...
I'm also not aware of anywhere it states that it is illegal to make your breastfeeding pictures available online. It seems clear that no charges have been laid in this story. If you would like to demonstrate otherwise feel free to post reference instead of just waving your hands. Also feel free to show where it states that Facebook must be responsible for enforcing it. Sure it is possible that whether or not someone is showing a nipple changing things, but as I said that is largely an American problem. If you want to have that problem, then good for you.
In the end, this is simply about whether or not Facebook is doing what's best for their bottom line, and I'm honestly perfectly OK with that. As I stated I wasn't directly commenting on this Facebook issue in the first place, and I intend to steer clear of this (clearly male dominated) "is breastfeeding OK on the internet" debate as I can.
As far as Facebook and their bottom line goes, my gut tells me Facebook is being obtuse. No, I don't think many (if any) people will quit Facebook over having a few friends that post breastfeeding pictures (they might unfriend them at worst). I do think that some more outspoken women's rights advocates may quit Facebook, certainly they will try to raise enough of a stink and bad publicity to negatively affect Facebook. I really can't think of why Facebook wants to choose this pointless battle, but I believe it is a poor choice.
As for the mothers in question...the sensibilities of strangers is such an inconsequential concern compared to the well-being of one's child that you might as well ask why she thinks it's okay to drink a glass of water without any consideration for the fate of the millions of living organisms within. When our baby cries, my wife goes into some kind of panic-driven berserker state until he's mollified. I barely matter to her at that point.
So that's the why. As to the where...you can't simply go into house arrest when you have a baby that you have to feed every 2-3 hours. In my opinion, a lot of people eat far more obscenely than any combination of baby+breast, but open-mouth chewers are allowed to perform their horrible bodily functions in full view of the innocent public even though they could be considerate and eat in the privacy of their homes. Imagine you're a mother (assuming you aren't). Why should you be treated like a second class citizen when you're literally creating the next generation of people from the substance of your own body? No mother I know feels that what she's doing is obscene or anything less than wonderful, and I personally doubt the mental health of anybody who does.
Why on earth would you assume that?
Edit: oh, duh, I get it. I read "friends" as "friends", not "Facebook friends". Makes more sense now.
So what you're saying is that Facebook should be removing something like 90-95% of the photos uploaded to it.
I also support the freedom to protest (breastfeeding in front of facebook offices). However, I have to admit I kind of "face palmed" when I heard that that was their plan of action. Whatever, their right. And I won't be there to take it away from them.
One last thought. In no way does facebook "have" to let women show pictures of them breasfeeding. I feel some people are quick to jump the gun and pull the "freedom of speech" card on websites like this. By signing up with facebook, you are joining a club and swearing that you'll follow the rules of that club. If the club decides to ban something, its their right. Just like stores can refuse to serve customers.
Interesting read, thanks.
If some people are using this as the case against these pictures, that's just plain stupid. Porn has more to do with sex and lust. Breastfeeding isn't pedophilia.
Yes, it's within their rights, so it may be legal, but...
however, there is nothing illegal or unethical about them doing so.
How does this imply that it not being unethical? There are certainly plenty of cases where something is "within your rights" and "legal", but still unethical. If I plagiarize an out-of-copyright author, what I'm doing is unethical, but it's still within my rights, as wrong as it is.
Let's not perpetuate this stupid "it's legal, so it's okay" meme: not all things which are "legal" are perfectly ethical, nor are all things which are not "legal" unethical.
Not categorically. One could argue that this is sex discrimination. "mothers can come in, as long as they do not behave as mothers do". Replace "mothers" by "gays" there, and you get "don't show, don't tell"
A store that refused to serve a woman because she was breastfeeding would be, in England, in some trouble.
Clubs and stores can do a lot of things, but they also have to operate within the law. If the law says they're not allowed to discriminate against breast-feeding women then that's what they have to do.
This weirdly ties in to all the "COMPANY will censor in certain countries because of local law"; in this situation companies will not censor in certain countries because of local laws.
They make this point everywhere, in parks, at work, at the coffeehouse. The point is to make breastfeeding natural. And when you realize that it's not (and it doesn't matter whether it's a well-dressed VP or an MFA student, it is clearly socially unacceptable, or at least uncomfortable, to breast feed in public) - when you realize that feeding our children should be the most natural thing in the world, and it isn't, you can appreciate the militancy with which they fight to make it a common occurrence for the rest of us: like showing up in your news feed.
What's also missing from the discussion is what people expect mothers to do in these situations when they're far from home. The alternative might be just a public restroom or a cleaning supplies closet. That's both disgusting and unsafe.
Ultimately this doesn't push society towards being more open, but at least a small group of normal people can interact without being harassed by a bunch of prudes.
In this case I see it as a good direction; when young people in the UK were being given 4 year prison sentences for making jokes about rioting, I saw it is a terrible direction.
Either way it will be interesting to see where Facebook et al legally end up. My suspicion will be that it will be more like a Mall and less like a private club.
I'm just scratching my head, why women want photos of themselves breastfeeding on Facebook. Do their friends really want to see it? Yes, its natural and ok in public, but I'm just having a hard time imagining why someone wants photos of that up there?
It must (or probably is) women's friends flagging the photos to begin with. I can't imagine Facebook employees manually look at every photo uploaded.
The same people who take photos of women doing anything else with their children. If you don't start from the (very loaded) assumption that breastfeeding is shameful, you're not likely to treat photos of breastfeeding all that differently from any other photo of a mother holding her infant.
Sometimes it really does seem like the alleged cabal of male chauvinists presumed in feminist literature is setting the unconscious standards for our culture. "I can't fap to this - there's a baby on it! That's obscene!"
I'm by no means saying that facebook is doing anything close to the right thing. Exactly opposite. But I think theres a gross misconception among the general public that people somehow have any rights whatsoever on facebook.