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Comment by munificent | Hacker News Reader

I still drive a manual 2002 Toyota Tacoma and you'll have to claw it out of my dead hands for this exact reason. I really love the utility of a pick-up truck, but I absolutely despise the size of any of them in the US in the past couple of decades.

I wish they still made mid-sized pick-ups that were actually mid-sized.

A Tacoma is nearly the size of Tundra was twenty years ago, and a Tundra today is like the size of a damn schoolbus.

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I drive past a 1970s Ford truck daily and nothing has changed with sizes in the same vehicle category. Newer cars are just more bulbous and thicker. Full-size pickups have been just short of 80" wide since regulations in the 1960s on clearance lights. What _did_ change is the compact truck category vanished for a while (and those compacts were then re-designed as mid-sized). The category is making a comeback now with unibody trucklets like the Ford Maverick and Hyundai Santa Cruz.

But no, a new Tacoma isn't even close to the size of an old Tundra (212 vs 230 inches length, 75 vs 79 inch width). Also a new Tundra is right there with the size of an old Tundra (233 vs 230 inches length for double cab, same width)

Here's the specs from Edmund's:

                                    length    bed
    2002 Tacoma 2-door              184.4"  74.5"
    No 2022 model                   --- -   -- -

    2002 Tacoma Xtracab             202.9"  74.5"
    2022 Tacoma 4-door access cab   212.3"  73.7"

    2002 Tacoma 4-door              202.9"  61.5"
    2022 Tacoma 4-door double cab   212.3"  60.5"

    2002 Tundra 2-door              217.5"  98.2"
    No 2022 model                   --- -   -- -

    2002 Tundra 4-door access cab   217.5"  74.7"
    No 2022 model                   --- -   -- -

    No 2002 model                   --- -   -- -
    2022 Tundra 4-door double cab   233.6"  77.6"

So with Tundras, there's no way to directly compare since they didn't offer double cabs in 2002, and offer only them in 2022.

But with Tacomas, you can see that in the same category, they've gotten about ten inches longer (while losing some bed length!).

A 2022 Tacoma access cab is 212.3", less than five inches shorter than a 2002 Tundra access cab.

Yeah, what the hell happened?

And I miss my manual (1980's?) Chevy Luv.

From what I understand, the two main drivers are:

- safety standards (eg crumple zones)

- emissions and efficiency regulations that vary with the footprint of the vehicle. Vehicles with larger footprint (= width x length) are allowed to have lower fuel economy numbers, which perversely means that one solution to a truck having poor fuel economy is to make it… bigger.

Another driver is everyone getting pickup trucks and the resulting market distortion. Farmer that needs to haul equipment? You need a pickup truck. Family of four that needs to do the school run? For some reason you’ll also be getting a pickup truck. And there are a lot more of the latter to market to.

There's a lot of room to talk yourself into a pickup. They aren't cheap. If you can afford one, you can also probably afford a boat or a trailer. If either is of more than diminutive size (even theoretically, as a planned future purchase), that basically narrows you down to a pickup or equivalent size SUV. If you also want to carry home improvement goods (concrete blocks, plywood, drywall, or anything longer than 8'), it's way easier to get those in and out of a pickup.

I don't think most people use their trucks this way most days, but it's easy to convince yourself you will.

I’d also add that they became a lifestyle accessory. Once SUVs started getting identified with soccer moms, the size and macho styling of pickups started going up along with the price. That makes a lot of sense financially for the manufacturer since a business user is going to be a lot more price sensitive, especially for stuff which isn’t durable, and there are a ton of people who don’t really need one but like the image so moving in that direction can grow your market significantly as long as you don’t drive away your original audience.

If you want to actually carry passengers in your truck, you want 4 doors and a full back seat. The new Tacomas are great trucks, because it's practical to carry cargo or people in them. Old single cab Rangers, Luvs, Tacomas, etc, were fine, but not as broad market.

If you need to carry passengers, a truck probably isn't the right choice. Four doors and a bed make for an oversized and inefficient vehicle for hauling either people or cargo alone. You say "broad market", I say "ill suited for most tasks."

Yep. It's a big reason I stuck with a Fit (can still cram in a decent amount of stuff) instead of a small pickup.

Aside from the fact that there don't seem to be small pickups anymore, the closest ones I've found all seem to have 4 doors and a really short bed. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had more than one passenger in my Fit, but I frequently need to pick up large items at the local home center or haul things to the dump (old home renovation).

But since most smaller trucks seem like large cars with stubby beds, I settle for having my 4x8 plywood sheets ripped at the store or scoring/folding drywall sheets so I can slide them in from the hatch to the passenger seat.

> If you need to carry passengers, a truck probably isn't the right choice. Four doors and a bed make for an oversized and inefficient vehicle for hauling either people or cargo alone. You say "broad market", I say "ill suited for most tasks."

It's a fine choice, as long as the truck has 4 doors. And the super cabs don't really affect gas mileage much at all.

When I was growing up, my dad had one of those tiny Rangers. There were 3 of us kids. My dad was a part-time plumber and also built our house when we were younger. We'd make regular trips to Lowe's or whatever with him when my mom was working. There weren't even 4 separate seat belts. It wasn't really safe, and it was a tight squeeze that was only possible because we were quite young. Anyways, many reasons why you sometimes need to do both.

Not Just Bikes, a YouTuber made a video about increasing vehicle sizes in the US and why you may be interested in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo

Nothing has happened -- new trucks are within the dimensions of old trucks +-5% for similar configurations. This is very easy to validate with a quick search. The real question is how this myth got started.

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