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Comment by borski | Hacker News Reader

Nonsense. Superchargers are packed; while they work, you’re waiting in line for a charge.

Meanwhile, while some folks have had issues with EA, I haven’t, and even if I did, I’d just use a Chargepoint, EVGo, Shell Recharge, or any number of other chargers as needed.

Not to mention that I can buy a Tesla charger adapter for like $60 that lets me use destination chargers at hotels, and that Tesla is opening up to CCS charging because they want that sweet federal money.

Basically: a Tesla is an EV, and Tesla is no longer on top of the EV game, as evidenced by the recent six price drops in the last year, because they are outinnovated and now trying to outprice their competition instead of innovating.

You let me know how your FSD, which is “coming by the end of the year,” does for you. I’ve got some bridges to sell in Brooklyn.

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Anecdotally, even in Tesla heavy Northern California supercharger wait times are often zero or close to zero unless you consistently hit the peak times. I don’t know if you have stats or bad first hand experience or simply generalizing reports from holiday peak times off hand.

The expansion of superchargers to non-Teslas may indeed cause problems. So far I have seen perhaps one total non-Tesla vehicle. If anything, that should be a new point in favor of EVs compared to the time the author purchased their vehicle, which makes the article even further disingenuous.

I don’t know why you brought FSD into a very specific argument about EV ownership experience. I don’t disagree. Sounds like a canned message from a Tesla hater though.

The implication that Teslas were somehow superior and outside the category of other EVs. I don’t hate Teslas; I just consider them another EV, with some pros (the supercharger network) and some cons.

Elon and the FSD nonsense is one such con. I only brought it up because he just promised it again by the end of this year, and it set off a spate of people going “Tesla is the best” when we’ve all seen this story before.

I credit Tesla with kicking off the revolution; I don’t even dislike their cars. I’ve enjoyed when I’ve rented them.

I just think they’ve stopped innovating in recent years, and frankly, I wish they would. More competition is always good.

Are you arguing that FSD will never come? Or just that it will likely be delayed again? Or that they’re not even working on it? If you’ve seen any of their AI presentations in recent years, I’m a little confused by your comment. I know some of it is marketing but it is incredibly impressive what they’re building. I would be surprised if anyone else is even close to how advanced they are. I just think the problem, the last 5% anyway to get it fully working and reliable, is 10x+ harder than anyone thought.

Now when it comes to specific physical features on the car or something, I don’t know, haven’t been following that very closely.

I’m arguing that Tesla is no longer the obvious leader in EVs. That’s all.

FSD may or may not come eventually. I’m doubtful. But as it stands, other makers are improving rapidly and Tesla has produced little innovation to compete with them in recent years, instead choosing to focus on touting features that seldom come (2016 was the first year FSD was coming “by the end of the year”) and cost-cutting measure to improve profits at the cost of customer experience.

That’s not a jab on Tesla as a company as much as it is just disappointment. Their lead is dwindling, and I wish they’d focus on innovating instead of whatever else is happening right now.

FSD is a disaster and Elon an AH, but it’s a simple fact that Tesla supercharger are their biggest competitive benefit, and superior to anything else on the market?

Yes. But that lead is dwindling, and soon opening to CCS cars as well. That’s my point.

Tesla needs to start building something new again, or improving their cars in meaningful ways, or their lead will dwindle.

And the cybertruck ain’t it. (I have a reservation for one, but there are better options now)

Depends on the metrics you choose.

Tesla is still very much at the head of the pack for range, efficiency, and charging speed (thinking of the Model 3 and Y especially). These are the fundamental factors that probably matter the most in determining the convenience of a regular-use EV.

Some manufacturers (hat-tip to Hyundai in particular) are starting to come close or match them in some or all of these (which is great!) but it’s absolutely not the norm.

Lucid beats Tesla on all 3. 520mi range, super efficient, 350kw charging (compared to 250kw on a Tesla).

My point isn’t that Tesla sucks. It’s that they’re not inherently superior anymore.

(And yes, Hyundai and Kia are great. Merc and BMW are also giving them a run for their money, though I don’t like their styling.)

I think their innovations are mostly going towards scaling supply and manufacturing now. They’ve scaled their large-can batteries, they’re finally starting in earnest on Semi and Cybertruck. And FSD has been improving.

To your earlier point, I have literally never once had to wait to get a supercharger, the route planner takes number of open stalls into account. The non-Tesla experience, idk, and we only use them on road trips, so we’re generally not going to any inside big cities, so maybe that’s the difference. Also not in the Bay Area, so they’re not the local “Camry” yet.

FWIW, the Lucid and Ioniq navs also take stall availability into account.

Ah cool. Not sure why you’ve been hitting waits at superchargers, maybe it’s just a Bay Area thing?

could be!

How do destination chargers at hotels work? It seems like only seedy motels have parking spaces right outside the room where you could use its outlets. Are nicer hotels starting to build a few dedicated chargers somewhere in their parking lot? Do you reserve one when you book a room?

It’s almost always first come first serve, and they’re either Tesla wall chargers or Chargepoint or similar wall chargers, usually maxed out at 48 amps or so.

Destination chargers are Level 2, so while not superchargers they are much faster than a (Level 1) generic US 120v outlet. They're fast enough to recharge the car overnight. They're fairly common at mid-range and better hotels. Sometimes I call ahead to reserve one but usually I find one open when I arrive. The Plugshare app and website (among others) can help you find them, as can the Tesla website.

I don't see their numbers growing as fast now as 3-4 years ago because there are so many more superchargers now that destination chargers don't give a hotel as much of a competitive advantage, except in places where there is still not a supercharger nearby.

Maybe I'm exceedingly lucky, but I've only had to wait in line once. I make frequent trips between Oakland/SF and Los Angeles, and charge at stations nearly exclusively since I live in an apartment.

This is what’s hard about it - personal experiences vary. We need an outside entity somehow keeping track of uptime and availability of chargers, and the infrastructure bill will hopefully help with that.

I've had a tesla for over a year, I exclusively charge at superchargers, and I've waited for a stall at a charger a total of one time.

Cool. I think what this shows (your experience at superchargers vs mine, and my experience at EA vs the article) is that personal experiences vary, and we need better stats.

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