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kanbara

i don’t understand what the point of talking about us adoption of nfc payment vs chip+pin is.

i’ve lived in several countries and used apple wallet in all of them + the us since 2012.

and my german bank only got a card available in wallet in 2021…

chip and sign is dumb, but nfc and apple wallet work just as well in the states as they do anywhere else.

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> but nfc and apple wallet work just as well in the states as they do anywhere else.

I believe the point is that this change feels much more of a small increment elsewhere, because we've had modern payment systems for a while. NFC appeared in our cards without any significant change, because we had chip cards for decades before that.

> and my german bank only got a card available in wallet in 2021…

They probably didn't hurry because they had contactless payment long before that.

Yep.

And Americans will typically try to cut it any number of ways that aren’t “the US is uniquely behind the times, given their wealth”.

The reality: When I was working retail, in 2010 mind you, customers would very routinely be surprised and annoyed by the fact that our store didn’t have terminals that accept NFC payments.

When Apple Pay came out in…2014? 2015?, all the American tech pundits were talking about it like it was futuristic alien technology.

I’ve spent exactly one week in the US, ever. I was in Seattle. If I used my card to pay for food at a restaurant, it was entirely common and accepted for someone to take my card, scurry away, and come back at some point with something for me to sign. Back home, they’ll bring me the terminal so I can just tap my card (or phone, or whatever), or they’ll do it for me in the case of a card, and that’s that.

It’s such an odd thing to get defensive about.

Meh bringing the terminal to the table because the card being out of sight is scary to Europeans (and some Americans) is also weird. What's the waiter going to do? Steal your money? Well, yes. But Chip and PIN being brought out so many years because theft via magstripe was so common in some areas of the EU by organized crime isn't something I'd really brag about.

Take down the number, expiration date and CVV number then make purchases online/over the phone.

Which is a PITA but ultimately the card company will cover it.

The way payments in restaurants are typically handled in much of Europe is convenient but to the parent's point, the obsession with never letting go of your card sometimes seems a bit excessive.

I would say the habit of not needing to trust the waiter with our cards means that when we're in a situation where we have to, it's very uncomfortable. Just like I would feel very uncomfortable giving my passwords to a coworker, even though I generally trust them not to abuse it. There's a strong sense of inappropriateness.

> Which is a PITA but ultimately the card company will cover it.

Most of the non-major banks are a pain to even open disputes with — not to mention:

- having to receive a new card (a pain if one's frequently on the road, or if the bank doesn't ship overseas);

- change any recurring billing details, if needed;

- possibly set up direct debits (sometimes with paper forms, like in Singapore);

- some other stuff I haven't thought of.

> Chip and PIN being brought out so many years because theft via magstripe was so common in some areas of the EU by organized crime isn't something I'd really brag about.

Ah, yes, "if it's NIH, it's probably because we're so honest we don't need it".

A few years ago, I was sitting at a bar in Vegas having lunch and the guy next to me finished up and paid his bill and he was "Whut?!" when the bartender grabbed his card and headed off. I must say, I just got back from Europe and the near universality of just tapping a card on either a portable terminal or at the bar with no worries about manually adding on service charges (though in the UK there is usually an "optional" charge added on for table service) is quite streamlined.

It's actually incredible how behind they are in some respects. NYC only got an NFC payment card for the travel system (Omny) in 2021. London's oyster card was launched in 2003!

When Apple Pay came out in…2014? 2015?, all the American tech pundits were talking about it like it was futuristic alien technology.

That makes no sense. Ive been doing contactless payment in the US long before apple Pay.

Pretty sure my Amex did it back in 2010?

The older the banking system is, the less modern it is. Germany was a technological leader before the 1st world war, and still is in some ways, and could be considered a financial center for at least part of the world for the same period(like the eu) So it's financial system is horrible, the same for all "modern" countries. If you want to see modern finance, look at countries that are wealthy enough to afford it but only became this way in the last few decades(like since the 90s)

A politically heated examples: if you go to the farthest village of Russia, where only poor people live(for example 12h drive from Irkutsk), you will be able to pay with contactless payments in their local store(before the war, you would be able to pay with Visa/Mastercard/Apple/Google/etc).

And in China you will be able to pay with qr codes based payments even to a homeless entrepreneur on the street, that tries to sell you selfmade slippers, or something like that.

I don’t recognize the pattern you describe. For various reasons I’ve done a lot of travel over the last month or so - 2 “old money” European countries, a “new money” European country, a Middle Eastern country and Australia and I didn’t use cash or have to sign anything once in 5 or 6 weeks - I paid for everything with a contactless card. Unless something has dramatically changed in the last 2 years, my experience in the USA during my last trip there was that of a payments system that seemed stuck in the 1970s. In my experience, the global division would be between the USA and the rest of the world.

Can you describe stuck in the 70s? I just use contactless pay pretty much exclusively unless a place is cash only (which isn’t the norm). What are you doing in your country?

I don't think this true. Canada's banking system is not modern and essentially controlled by 5 banks. Tap to pay is everywhere these days even the stalls at the farmers market.

This is a common theme for centralised infrastructure. e.g. power grids, roads, rail.

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