Librem 5 USA Smartphone Provides Many Exclusive Security Features
puri.sm
puri.sm
Purism has burned me too many times for me to advocate for them and it's a shame because we really need a better mobile hardware and software ecosystem.
I later got a pine but it wasn't as good, sluggish. don't know about the pinephone pro.
I personally considered the PinePhone at some point to hack on, and UBPorts looked rather fluid on it from video reviews I've looked at the time.
I think I paid $599 for the librem 5 (2017), and $299 for the pinephone. Neither had the fit and finish of an iphone, even the iphone se.
The $599 price point you paid does not exist today and buying a PinePhone usually nets you a phone inside of a couple weeks where your Librem 5 probably arrived on the scale of years. It's quite the tenuous comparison.
Wouldn't it be better to be assembled in a friendly country with a better track record? Maybe somewhere in Europe?
[0]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/photos-of-an-nsa...
Is there anyone here who has used or is using the Librem 5 smartphone? I have a few questions about it:
* How is the the mobile version of PureOS? Do you like it?
* How responsive are apps on the phone? Do they feel snappy?
* Are you able to sync your email and calendar on either Google Apps or Outlook for offline access?
Purism has a long history of making grand promises and not delivering them.
They make sketchy things like promising a possibility to refund and then gaslighting customers that such promise did not happen.
(For clarity: It still runs, but Mastodon from 2019.)
It wasn't initially as the idea was to disable things like direct messages and rely on blocking (IIRC some blocking features were even improved upstream as part of the Librem One project), but that was quickly scrapped as it's not something that works with federation very well.
If they hadn't managed that, they would be indistinguishable from a LARP preying on FOSS enthusiasts' hopium and dollars in the phone context.
The Pinephone (not pro) I got was slow and the software was very alpha, but I've heard it's better now. Again, not sure about the Librem as I got stuck in the queue and gave up eventually. I heard there were Librem5 overheating issues and I'm not sure if that's been adequately addressed.
Phosh on the Pinephone definitely wasn't snappy. Maybe it will be snappier with Pro and a new update since I haven't tried it out again in years. I never got around to syncing things too much, but there are definitely email clients on Linux that'll work though how "mobile" their UI is, I'm not sure. Purism created libhandy[0] that's now managed my GNOME to mobilify these things and again I'm not sure about the status, but I'm sure Email was a high priority.
I have no troubles with overheating on my phone, I can even compile things on it. Some people living in warmer climates report that it may be challenging to charge the phone when it's on as it has a thermal threshold where it stops charging. Should get better with system suspend, which was very experimental until now (still not enabled by default, but it got reliable enough to actually use it on a daily driver).
When it comes to perceived performance, Librem 5 is definitely closer to PinePhone Pro than the original PinePhone, which was very slow.
This phone is being sold for $1300 and whether you can charge it consistently depends on your latitude and experimental software.
> Librem 5 is definitely closer to PinePhone Pro
The PinePhone Pro is $399 and I can have it next week. I could buy three PinePhone Pros and wear them out a year before one Librem 5 with difficulty charging ships.
* it's good. works well, apps reflow nicely, can run a lot of stuff simultaneously without memory issues. There is a nasty kernel bug relating to suspend and the wwan modem, but that's not pureos specific.
* depending on the app, ranging from snappy to so-so. Especially flatpaks tend to stutter...
* I don't use those services but it should be possible via gnome-accounts. I do sync a caldav and carddav and that works flawlessly.
written from librewolf on my librem5
I'm honestly almost always near a charger, which I also realize is just a cope.
https://forums.puri.sm/t/modem-draining-the-battery-very-fas...
I've had the phone for a while and the battery has gone through many cycles. It has definitely lost some capacity.
[0] https://forums.puri.sm/t/status-of-suspend-for-librem-5/1391...
[1] https://forums.puri.sm/t/status-of-suspend-for-librem-5/1391...
[2] https://forums.puri.sm/t/status-of-suspend-for-librem-5/1391...
Recent progress: https://social.librem.one/@dos/110180625035442292.
An update that makes communication with the modem after resuming from system suspend reliable has been deployed today (previously it would often fully reenumerate and cause various troubles in the process, now it's instant).
Thanks for your hard work to get this fixed!
The early batches shipped with early software, and that was actually the biggest contributor to bad battery life and (now long solved) overheating issues.
Early backers who explicitly opted in to receive early batches from before mass production have smaller capacity batteries, and that's about it.
Not sure what's so "ouch" about it. People also bought devkits which didn't come with any battery at all. Only some people were presented with the opportunity to receive a phone from the earliest revisions and only some of those people chose to - presumably those who cared more about getting a platform to hack on as early as possible than things like battery life.
It sounds like they’re still not ready.
The mass produced phones that started shipping mid-2021 have 4500mAh battery and, with current software, reach about 20h in suspend with modem on and connected. Due to component shortages and other delays it's still shipping through backorders, although the queue is near its end right now.
I may run a test this summer to see how it goes.
Personally I like it. Phosh is pretty and snappy.
> How responsive are apps on the phone? Do they feel snappy?
Reasonable by Linux phone standards. Sometimes an app can take 2 or 3 secondds to load, but it shows a splash screen instantly so it still feels like its working. A mobile CSS firefox tweak (preinstalled) makes it work and it is very responsive and snappy.
> Are you able to sync your email and calendar on either Google Apps or Outlook for offline access?
Yes. Well Imap email works and CalDav calendars. I think Google calendars work. I use a generic Imap email provider and Nextcloud for contacts / email.
But the battery life is abysmal. I got between 4 and 8 hours battery life. Apparently suspend is now working so that should be fixed. The camera app wwas awful (but that is now fixed).
But the biggest problem was that the modem constantly dropped out meaning I would miss calls and messages makimg the phone useless.
I now use a OnePlus 6 with postmarketOS and I haven't looked back.
Also fixed now. Fun fact: it turned out to be a deficiency of USB 2.0 spec (race condition between a suspending hub and a device signaling remote wakeup) and it's in no way specific to the phone - it may happen on any USB host with similar topology.
Apps are fine, performance feels more than adequate. It's not Android so most of the apps I'm used to aren't available, but the ones that do exist are snappy enough. That's kinda the point, though, so that's not a complaint, just an observation.
I haven't poked at either of those emails, sorry. Regular POP/IMAP email works just like you'd expect.
My main complaint is battery life. It gets warm just sitting there, and it charges really slowly even using my best PD-compliant charger. If I forget to plug it in tonight, it'll be dead by morning, and I can't put enough charge back into it briefly during breakfast for it to be useful tomorrow daytime. As long as I'm fanatical about making sure it's plugged in every night, it's fine.
Sounds like vaporware more than anything...
And they don't allow you to get a refund until your spot in the queue comes up (or if you report their business to the government and you get lucky).
Have a look at https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-librem-5-shipping/112... that's a better prediction then Purism's 52 weeks...
This is what you get for "Assembled in the USA."
I'd love to try one of their phones, but I can't convince myself to pull the trigger at the price/performance/delay triangle they've settled into.
It works fine and it's not like there are any significantly more modern alternatives out there anyway. And to put things in context, a few years ago there was not a single phone out there that had working 3D acceleration with open drivers, for example.
>everyone who backed it, I guess
That was 6 years ago before it had even released. The value proposition of it now, especially now that people can see what it's actually like has tanked its desirability.
I backed the project on the initial campaign and the switch to i.MX8M from i.MX6 has been merely mentioned as a big "maybe" back then.
(sent from my Librem 5)
> I mean governments are going to track you one way or another, so Apple's tight software policies are good enough.
For anyone not clicking through to the article, here is the feature list:
Secure supply chain centered on made in the USA electronics at Purism’s facility located in the USA
Device assembled in the USA
Publicly available schematics
The Liberm 5 USA is designed for security and privacy rather than for consumerism
Hardware isolation of components
Bootable from SD card
Removable radio modules
Replaceable lithium battery
Secure cryptographic removable smart card
Hardware kill switches put the product owner in full control over device
Private and secure operating system, PureOS
PureOS is fully open source and auditable for better security and privacy
No intrusive mystery proprietary code supporting surveillance and data mining apps or technologies
PureOS supports private and secure apps developed with fully auditable source code
Purism supports decentralized application developers centered on providing secure apps
Security and privacy protection by default
Librem 5 USA is supported by secure and private cellular service provided by Librem AweSIM
Purism offers anti-interdiction services to ensure devices are not altered in transit
Librem 5 USA supports true convergence with PC apps using a lapdock or mouse, keyboard, and monitor
Do you know what the anti-interdiction services are? I’m guessing that the each of the separate components are cryptographically paired so that third parties can’t replace the modem or touchscreen (for example).
https://wp.puri.sm/posts/anti-interdiction-services/
> Does it have a something like Apple’s Secure Enclave to protect cryptographic keys? Are apps strongly isolated?
https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/community-wiki/-/wikis/Freque...
Thanks for the links.
The Pro has a much better hardware situation than the original PinePhone.
Pine has a far more vibrant and treaded software ecosystem than Librem[0] at this point and many or most of the userland UI is using Purism's Phosh launcher anyway. Hell, if you want, you can build PureOS for the PinePhone too [1].
Pine has more real users with real devices and possibly more developers too since it's more Bazaar and less Cathedral in its approach to development.
You can have preferences, but this just reads like sour grapes.
0: https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/PinePhone_Software_Release...
1: https://gist.github.com/mozzwald/3104aadf2cc8f567a72b6b78371...
There's a huge difference in maturity between PinePhone/Librem 5 and PinePhone Pro.
Until there's an easy guide for end-users to interact with so they can use it on a BYOD plan, it's of little value.
I've been wanting to move to something like Graphene or e/OS but they seem set on only supporting most of their security features on Pixel hardware.
I don't want a Pixel because I don't want anything Google. This seems like a fantastic alternative, and eventually Graphene will support it - in the meanwhile there is DivestOS.
I barely use my phone for making calls via the cellular network anyway, and I'm always in a big city with good reception, so not too worried about some of the issues people are talking about. Everything's a compromise anyway.
The jump from AOSP to Linux/Phosh would be an entirely new codebase. Graphene deciding on Pixel as a foundational device wasn't because of a love for Google, but because of a need for security and hardware updates on a well-worn device platform that has actual traction in the market... as optimistic as I would like to be about the Linux Phone, we're just not there nor will be we for many tomorrows.
Graphene I think could work on Fairphone without too much tweaking, not sure if it's worth the effort though.
Personally, I was bummed they removed the headphone jack on their latest model[0]. If people are going out of their way to avoid the Apple/Google antics of the world, give them a damn headphone jack. Just bogus IMO, but not a deal breaker for many in 2023 I guess. They parroted a lot of Apple's (marketing) points around it and even sell their own adapter...
[0]: https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/983618898804...
Discussion: https://forums.puri.sm/t/volte-support-progress/11664/51.
Nowadays I understand the other side always pretty well, but often they don't understand me well when calling from L5.
Apart from that calling is depending on modem connectivity which is still pretty bad. I don't have a stable connection at work, where an iPhone in the same mobile network, is always fine. I'm even unsure if that aspect has improved really since I received it in March 2022.
Then there are some smaller bugs, like your phone hangs and keeps vibrating when you receive a call, while the L5 is locked.
Edit: forgot to add that while moving fast, e.g. in a train, I would say calling is almost impossible. You just loose connection too often.
Really wonder what is happening for a linux device to use that much power, plenty of progress to be made on that part.