Ask HN: Does attempting to finish my CS degree make sense?

It sounds like you’re terribly lonely and that loneliness makes it hard to focus.

I was like that for a while and everything was a struggle until I figured out how to meet more of my social needs and need for respect. They’re fundamental human needs and if they’re not getting met, it’s going to be hard to think about anything else.

It really does sound like your current situation is not ideal in terms of your job and social outlets.

Are you ABSOLUTELY sure that the people you care take will be okay without you for five years? In some cases I know of, people think they’re more needed than they actually are, and they have just latched onto the role of caretaker for psychological self defense.

You need a change of some type in your life man. Staying on the your current path seems like a very bad option.

School sounds like a waste to me given what you’ve said about your experience. PRs to popular open source repos is the way you can gain credibility. After that, it shouldn’t be too hard to beg your way into an internship. And then once you’ve broken in, everything should be relatively easy. Also, it sounds to me like you’ve GOT to figure out your loneliness situation with a change in scenery. Maybe live in Costa Rica for a while at a cheap hostel popular with young tourists? Something.

Good luck man. These are my context less, pretty worthless two cents. You have so much potential! Don’t listen to the doubters inside or outside. But you may need to make some hard decisions.

My sibling would probably kill theirself if there wasn't someone to help them. I've tried to help my sibling get to where they're at least doing volunteer work or something, which my sibling said they were willing to do, but they have kept dragging feet. Just in bed for 13ish years.

I visited my dad for a week last year, but my sibling apparently stayed inside the entire time.

I don't think being around other people would help. They generally just find ways to hurt me or make things worse in someway, either accidentally or deliberately. All my in-person interactions with people have either been neutral (like asking someone at a store where something is) or negative (every counselor or psychiatrist, other students when I went to school). The only "safe" people are relatives. I think the last time I had a positive in-person interaction with a non-relative was in the 90s. I don't really have anything to offer other people, and want to avoid being some kind of parasite as much as possible.

After reading your post and all your comments, I feel like your first step before making any other changes in your life is that something has to give with respect to the situation with your sibling, since it seems like you can't move forward with taking any big step without sorting out your situation as a caretaker. For example, can you somehow get the people who are supporting you right now to take care of your sibling while you can't take care of your sibling due to school/work?

I'm sure you've been trying to come up with a solution regarding your situation with the sibling for a long time, and it must be a very difficult situation with no easy solution, but my opinion is that there has to be some kind of ultimatum so that you can go forward with your life as well.

I'm really careful as I write this as I don't know what your sibling is going through, and I don't mean a single bit of disrespect to your sibling, but is it possible that they won't commit suicide even if you aren't around to help? When faced with the prospect of destitution due to you no longer being available to provide 100% of your sibling's care, do you think there's a chance that your sibling would finally change and decide to take steps to gradually become independent? Since only you know what your sibling is like, you can disregard my comment if it's probable that your sibling will kill self when forced with no longer being able to continue their current shut-in lifestyle.

In psychology, it all stems from childhood. Clearly there is something from the family.

I would find a therapist that can help you properly explore your childhood and how it is affecting you today.

I had trouble in my early career because of feelings of not belonging, being afraid to ask for help, feeling powerless. Turns out, it was because I didn't get warm fuzzy attention as a child.

There are some cheap options to get out. Live at a hostel in San Fran! https://greentortoise.net/tradework.html. Work in the UK! https://www.workaway.info/en/hostlist/europe/gb?region=Engla...

I would pick another major. It's obvious the CS is what you think you want but given the amount of time it's taken you to finish the degree that you aren't that dedicated to the idea.

You'll face 2 problems even if you finish your degree which will make it hard for you to get a job after you finish. 1) Lack of experience. 2) Ageism. Also, after you finish your degree you'll need even more training to get a job. CS teaches you about how information technology works but it doesn't necessarily train you for a job.

if I were you, I would start looking for a new job in an area where you can create a long term career, even if you need to get an entry level job. There are careers that don't need a college degree. Look into those. I would then finish my schooling so I can get promoted.

But first of all, look forward 10 years and determine where you want to be. Create a 10, 5, 2, 1 year plan on how to get there. You'll need help. Go to the nearest community college and get and appointment with a career counselor and start your plan. Also, revisit the plan every 6 months, to make sure you are on the right path.

Don't wait. Start!

Well, it's other people in my life that think I should go back and finish the degree. Even though that kind of work probably what I'm most appropriate for, I've resisted since I think they are being overly optimistic and it would be a waste.

Do you have any recommendations what careers I should be looking at, given my limitations (terrible memory, speech)? I have a hard time coming up with anything that's a significant improvement on what I'm currently doing.

Terrible memory -> take notes

Speech -> rehearse

Why let things stop you.

I do both, and they help, but they have limits. I can't look at my notes during a closed book test, and I can't perfectly predict how a conversation will go, so it always ends up somewhere I wasn't able to practice. Neither of this issues have gotten better with time.

I was able to get to get a software job with no degree, with a portfolio of apps I built. However that was when the market was hot, and startups that had a hard time recruiting were willing to take a shot on me. In your case, I think it makes sense to finish the degree. In the couple years it takes to finish your degree, the economy will be on the upswing again, so you need to maximize your chances of getting aboard the train.

Build apps, practice LeetCode, really use your university resources to help you get your first job (things like career fair, internships, referrals).

Also consider expanding your interests into hot in demand skills. Unfortunately, physical hardware retro gaming has way less employers than say a mobile app. The other problem with embedded is that it requires knowledge of hardware as well, which has its own barrier of entry in addition to CS.

What you want is a job (not a degree).

You could try working towards that. Just, writing code -- creating a portfolio of your work in a GitHub repository. Volunteering on open source projects (which also doubles as networking). And also, taking classes because you want to learn something -- not because you want the degree. Then you'll actually use what you're learning, and your skills will be fresh if/when an opportunity comes along.

Also: there are, like, 16-week code schools that are free (for a cut of your future salary). People have mixed opinions.

But the point is: once you get your first paid programming job, you have a lot more options, and the rest of your career gets a whole lot easier.

https://corporate.target.com/press/releases/2022/02/target-t...

If Target is doing this, I'm guessing others are too.

Go for it.

If there are mental health issues - find help - not everyone even professionals can necessarily help - you may have to try different people, but it can get better.

Why do you it's worth making another attempt, with the issues I have?

Who would be good to go to, when professionals don't know how to help?

I've often seen things on Slashdot, /r/programming, and HN about how difficult it can be to get hired when you're older. If I managed to get the degree, would I be able get any use out of it being mid-30s? I wasn't able to get ANY job on my own after trying for a few years, with the job I have now being something I got through vocational rehabilitation, so any extra difficulty makes it seem even less likely that I could get anywhere.

Whenever there's some kind of discussion about age and programming, there's always some people to pop up to say that they've managed fine, but I definitely haven't managed fine up to this point, so I don't feel encouraged. I don't care if other people exist that could get something out of a degree at my age, I'm concerned about if I could use it, given my situation and problems. Supposedly embedded programming is a bit better about that kind of stuff, but I don't know if it's a big enough difference to matter.

There not a great variety of programming related jobs where I live (I've checked a few times, with most of what I saw being stuff like database work for a hospital, or "I have this idea for an app") so I'd probably have to move.

This is complicated by a few things. I take care of a sibling, who has been pretty unwilling to do anything and has been spending the last decade in bed basically all day, with a constantly rotating sleep schedule. (I used to take care of a parent as well, but that stopped after she went to hospice two years ago.) This wouldn't make it totally impossible to move, but it's still a big ball and chain making things much more difficult.

The house I live in is owned by an absurdly generous and well-off relative, who bought it for us to use because my mom had trouble keeping housing straight after my parents divorced (we kept having to move back in with her parents). Deciding how to handle the house if we leave would be another challenge.

Another problem I have is talking, and that's likely involved in some of my problems.

It's like verbal constipation. There's something that I want to get out, but it takes a lot of pain and effort to make it happen. And when it does come out, it's still shit. When I'm just thinking to myself, my thoughts seem clear, but the moment I try to output them, they get corrupted or something and I keep having to try to reform my sentences until I settle on something usable, which takes time. It feels like whenever the part of my brain that's responsible for serializing my internal thoughts into shareable language, besides just being trash, also interferes with the other operations of my brain when it's active.

With text, I can take the time to eddit and prof red i,t but it takes me a long time to write clearly. I can't spend a couple minutes thinking of how to phrase one sentence when talking. I can write a bit faster if it's something technical, since basic, wooden speech works fine there, but I still spend time double checking what I'm saying is correct, writing and testing sample code, or similar things, so I still wouldn't call it fast. I don't know how I compare to others on that.

I was recently recommended a speech therapist, and tried seeing him for a bit, but he was one of the worst therapists I've seen. It very hard for me to see how meeting someone an hour a week will be enough to make any noticeable change to the course of my life at this point.

Given these issues, I'm worried that if I got the degree, it wouldn't be something that would make any difference in my life considering the other problems I have. But besides the question of whether or not I can use the degree, there's still the problem of actually getting it.

> It very hard for me to see how meeting someone an hour a week will be enough to make any noticeable change to the course of my life at this point.

https://youtu.be/-KriRCtS4rs

I already spent five years on the degree. In my last semester I was supposed to get my GPA up by about 0.1 so it would be high enough to pass, but even after putting more effort into my classes than ever before, and mostly taking easy classes, it only went up something like 0.02. So my effort is meaningless, and I have no control over my grades. (Well, I guess I could force them down if I wanted to...)

I already know that there's no help available for me from the university; I talked to someone at the student disability center about six or seven years ago, who said that there wasn't anything they could do to help besides offer some words of encouragement. I was actually offered promising-sounding help (the only time in my life it's happened) when I failed to graduate at the end of my fifth year, but it wouldn't have been possible for me to go back for a sixth then. Apparently, it was time limited and is now off the table, I guess.

I've always been terrible at memorizing things like spellings, definitions, formulas, or any kind of name (person, place, or thing), but I have no problem remembering experiences, processes, non-textual/numerical arrangements, or how something is used or applied. I might have trouble remembering the exact definition from a book, but I would know how and when to apply it, and remember where in the book it is, and that the definition starts on the left-hand page near the bottom, continues onto the next page, and there are two diagrams beneath it. So even though I could do whatever a class was about, I did poorly on tests because because of this. During my fifth year at the university, I did some testing with a psychologist, which included an IQ test, and the category which involved memorizing random numbers and letters was my worst result, where I got 25th percentile (contrasted against getting >=95th percentile on half the test).

This is the one place where I might have a better chance than when I first tried. Since then, I've learned about stuff like spaced repetition and Anki. There were similar flash card like things in the past that helped me memorize things in the past, so there's evidence that it would help me handle the required rote memorization better than before.

Unfortunately, this advantage would be outweighed by how much difficulty I have getting myself to do things. I'm not sure I would describe it as procrastination, since to me that seems more putting off stuff you don't want to do. While I do do some of that, it's more that I can't even get myself to do things I WANT to do.

It was already difficult for me to get myself to do classwork when I thought I had a chance. I did poorly on homework because of this, with most of it half finished. The one exception was during my final semester, where I was more motivated than ever before to graduate, since I knew how bad things would turn out if I failed. It was the one time I managed to do everything I was supposed to do (homework, study). I was so sure that I would make it work, and was willing to do whatever I could, but I got practically zero improvement to my grades, and failing to graduate completely killed what motivation and drive I had left. (This was worsened by just how bad the majority of other students I saw were.) There is no way I could put as much effort in it as I did before.

The only reliable way I've found to get me to do things is have someone else around. They wouldn't need to constantly watch me, or even really do anything, just be around to complain if I'm not doing what I'm supposed to. They would never actually need to do it, just be somewhere nearby so that there's the threat of someone noticing. I always did extremely well in group projects in grade school and college (even with a group project done exclusively online over chat), and I never, ever waste time at work.

While not as reliable, there are a few other things that help a bit. I've noticed I do a bit better if someone is expecting something from me. For example, if say that I'll make some kind of coding example on a message board, I think I've always followed through, even if it's not as effortless as having someone "right there". I always let myself down, I often let relatives down, but I will do everything I can to not let down a stranger or coworker.

It also helps is to just not be home. I guess I have a different mindset in other places. While at the university, I spent a lot of time at the library instead of my room so I could get more homework done. I wrote 99% of this while sitting in my car before work/during break. Unfortunately, much of the hardware I program for isn't really something I can easily do in a small space without a table or power outlets...

I've tried some things I've found online to help with this, but they never paid off. I've done stuff like setting timers (i.e. like spend X minutes working, then Y minutes time off), but I keep finding that I never start, or keep fudging the timer. I've also tried subdividing tasks into very small, easy steps to make it seem easier. It hasn't been that effective; not all steps are equal, or can be broken down meaningfully, or I'd forget to start, or I just stall out on certain steps.

You've constructed for yourself a delusional narrative about grades. Not only are they a good first-order approximation of ability, they're also indicative of your amenability to take direction, which is more important to your prospective boss, a middle-manager in his early 30s relishing his first taste of power.